# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 197
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3921 "2014-02-11T14:28:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Violent fuckwadders are for the most part being charged with, and convicted of, various degrees of manslaughter or murder, just like before the s.y.g. laws. After their victims are already dead. Don’t you think there might be some sort of sense in _prevention_? > [@](#): > > If there really are dimwits out there who think the new laws let them be Wyatt Earp There are, as you well know. George Zimmerman does exist, and so does that Law Abiding Citizen who defended himself against that vicious popcorn attack. The SYG laws do enable them. Now where are all the lives they save? Are there any cases you can point to? If not, and the evidence is therefore that SYG costs lives, why wouldn’t you support repealing them? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3922 "2014-02-11T16:39:06Z")
Here’s another [proud home/gun-owner](http://pix11.com/2014/02/10/man-arrested-for-pulling-shotgun-on-snow-plow-driver/?hpt=ju_bn1#ixzz2sxjiuKch) protecting his hearth and home … from snow. Call the NRA; chalk up one more DGU. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3923 "2014-02-12T04:16:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > No. Easy availability of guns DOES increase successful suicides, spur-of-the-moment homicides, Neither of which I was talking about. You will get no argument from me that availability of guns does increase suicides and probably increases one-off murders (in our culture, at least). > [@](#): > > and mass murders. Weapons like knives just don’t lend themselves to easy or mass killing. Weapons like bombs are much less usable _for several reasons_. I hope I don’t seem disingenuous when I say that on most days, I am in at least one situation where I could kill or maim more people than the average mass shooter by flooring my accelerator and driving up the sidewalk for half a block. And I don’t even live IN the city. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3924 "2014-02-12T08:41:49Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Neither of which I was talking about. You will get no argument from me that availability of guns does increase suicides and probably increases one-off murders (in our culture, at least). Good. The incorrect claim about suicides is one that has been made by Dopers defending the Second Commandment. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I hope I don’t seem disingenuous when I say that on most days, I am in at least one situation where I could kill or maim more people than the average mass shooter by flooring my accelerator and driving up the sidewalk for half a block. And I don’t even live IN the city. So why don’t more mass murderers kill that way? Several reasons: [ul][li] It’s much less easy to target specific people.[/li][li] Shooter remains in control; rampaging driver does not.[/li][li] Shooter may be able to control his death or even escape; Driver is at mercy of chance and may end up alive and mangled.[/li][li] Shooting may be much more “enjoyable” (e.g. relishing witnessing “enemy” deaths)[/li][/ul] Bombing avoids 2 of the 4 listed problems of mayhem driving but adds others, e.g. difficulty and dangers of building and installing a bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3925 "2014-02-13T02:32:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Good. The incorrect claim about suicides is one that has been made by Dopers defending the Second Commandment. Admittedly, I’m the callous motherfucker (who suffers from currently-controlled major depressive disorder) who thinks suicide stats are neutral in terms of judging the risk factors associated with things that are also suicide methods. > [@](#): > > So why don’t more mass murderers kill that way? Several reasons: > [ul][li] It’s much less easy to target specific people.[/li][li] Shooter remains in control; rampaging driver does not.[/li][li] Shooter may be able to control his death or even escape; Driver is at mercy of chance and may end up alive and mangled.[/li][li] Shooting may be much more “enjoyable” (e.g. relishing witnessing “enemy” deaths)[/li][/ul] > > Bombing avoids 2 of the 4 listed problems of mayhem driving but adds others, e.g. difficulty and dangers of building and installing a bomb. I disagree with your assessment a bit. I think the relevant points are [ul] [li]It’s perceived as easier[/li][li]It conforms to imagery prevalent in our society at present[/li][/ul] I don’t see any particular reason running up on a clear sidewalk at 40 mph in a city street is LESS in control or risky than whipping out a firearm and opening fire. And frankly, if I were the kind of sick fuck who went on a murder rampage, having seen both car accident victims and (animal) gunshot victims, the car seems WAY more satisfying to me. Societal messaging and movies might disagree. That’s a morbid thought–how many massacre shooters find themselves vaguely disappointed because people don’t fly back or explode in bloody mayhem like they do in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3926 "2014-02-13T07:14:34Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Here’s another [proud home/gun-owner](http://pix11.com/2014/02/10/man-arrested-for-pulling-shotgun-on-snow-plow-driver/?hpt=ju_bn1#ixzz2sxjiuKch) protecting his hearth and home … from snow. > > Call the NRA; chalk up one more DGU. You’re a fucking failure at examples. It could have easily been a snow shovel. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3927 "2014-02-13T11:36:09Z")
Or a snow blower; or they could have been building a snowman in his drive way. Either way nothing Mr. Remington can’t fix, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3928 "2014-02-14T17:43:31Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Or a snow blower; or they could have been building a snowman in his drive way. Either way nothing Mr. Remington can’t fix, amirite? Perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3929 "2014-02-15T03:24:53Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > It strikes me as not only true but obvious that the current idiocy with stand-your-ground laws being used for all manner of assault on otherwise law-abiding people (or even otherwise not-engaging-in-deadly-threats people) is going to swing public opinion to the negative regarding guns even faster than mass shooting tragedies. I don’t know how every stand your ground law works but I agree that the one in Florida is likely to be detrimental to gun rights. The notion that the prosecutor has to prove that a homicide wasn’t self defense turn on its head the notion that self defense is an affirmative defense, one the defendant has to prove. > [@septimus](#): > > Good. The incorrect claim about suicides is one that has been made by Dopers defending the Second Commandment. What claim is that? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3930 "2014-02-15T15:49:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know how every stand your ground law works but I agree that the one in Florida is likely to be detrimental to gun rights. The notion that the prosecutor has to prove that a homicide wasn’t self defense turn on its head the notion that self defense is an affirmative defense, one the defendant has to prove. IANAL, but I think that’s conflating two slightly different things. Stand Your Ground, as I understand it, is the principle that a self-defense claim doesn’t have to meet the burden of proving that the defendant took active steps to avoid the fatal confrontation; e.g. “avoiding bad neighborhoods”, etc., if you’re out in public minding your own lawful business. This is something else from the principle that not everything that produces a dead person is _ipso facto_ murder or manslaughter unless the elements of those crimes are proven. Florida has both principles established in their law, but iirc Stand Your Ground wasn’t even an issue in the Zimmerman case; Zimmerman claimed he shot in self-defense and no compelling evidence that that wasn’t the case was produced. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3931 "2014-02-16T00:03:38Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > IANAL, but I think that’s conflating two slightly different things. Stand Your Ground, as I understand it, is the principle that a self-defense claim doesn’t have to meet the burden of proving that the defendant took active steps to avoid the fatal confrontation; e.g. “avoiding bad neighborhoods”, etc., if you’re out in public minding your own lawful business. This is something else from the principle that not everything that produces a dead person is _ipso facto_ murder or manslaughter unless the elements of those crimes are proven. Florida has both principles established in their law, but iirc Stand Your Ground wasn’t even an issue in the Zimmerman case; Zimmerman claimed he shot in self-defense and no compelling evidence that that wasn’t the case was produced. You’re right. The fucked up Florida rule regarding the shifting of the burden of proof in self defense is not stand your ground. But its still a fucked up part of Florida law. SYG just means you don’t have to retreat when confronted with danger. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3932 "2014-02-18T04:12:39Z")
There is [this](http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/9734871/Teenager-killed-over-egging-prank) case > [@](#): > > An Arkansas man shot and killed a 15-year-old girl this weekend after she and other pranksters egged a car outside his house, police said… > > Allen said the egging was in retaliation for an earlier prank by Noble’s teenage son. All of the youths involved attend local McClellan High School, he said… > > “You never know what somebody’s response is going to be to what may be a seemingly harmless prank,” Allen said… Yep…guns are certainly great for defending your car against the depredations of those dangerous eggs… ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3933 "2014-02-18T10:05:59Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > There is [this](http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/9734871/Teenager-killed-over-egging-prank) case Obvious DGU is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3934 "2014-02-18T15:52:07Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > There is [this](http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/9734871/Teenager-killed-over-egging-prank) case > > Yep…guns are certainly great for defending your car against the depredations of those dangerous eggs… Too bad the shooter wasn’t white. He could have invoked Stand Your Ground if so. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3935 "2014-02-18T18:08:09Z")
Isn’t amazing how, since Zimmerman and Stand Your Ground and all that shit, people seem to feel much more uninhibited in pulling out their guns and blazing away all wrapped up in the NRA-authorized mantra, “I was in fear for my life.” It’s almost like they realize how easy it will be to get away with killing folks now when they get pissed off. [Hell, you can even shoot someone, flee and when the cops catch up with you, you don’t even end up in custody.](http://www.azfamily.com/home/1-shot-during-fight-at-Walmart-in-Chandler-245766851.html?hpt=ju_bn3) And don’t try to tell me that it’s reasonable to be in fear for your life when you get into a argument in the middle of Walmart. This wasn’t some eerie gated-comuunity sidewalk in the darkness or a scary convenience store parking lot being inundated with rap-crap. Shit, I can remember the days when pulling out a gun during a fistfight was thuggery and pussy move. Not now it seems; it’s gone 180 and it’s now in the playbook for righteousness. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3936 "2014-02-18T19:46:13Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Too bad the shooter wasn’t white. He could have invoked Stand Your Ground if so. I think Stand Your Ground is justified in this case; you can get Salmonella from those things. It was a clear attack with biological weapons. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3937 "2014-02-18T20:07:54Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Shit, I can remember the days when pulling out a gun during a fistfight was thuggery and pussy move. Yeah? Were you a Shark or a Jet? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3938 "2014-02-18T20:13:30Z")
I was in a combo-gang. The Shets. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3939 "2014-02-18T21:35:18Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I was in a combo-gang. The Shets. Better than the other gang, the Jerks. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3940 "2014-02-19T00:12:40Z")
[Missouri gun murders ‘rose after law repeal’.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26222578) > [@](#): > > The law had required purchasers to be vetted by the local sheriff and to receive a licence before buying a gun. > > Reporting soon in the Journal of Urban Health, the researchers will say that the repeal resulted in an immediate spike in gun violence and murders. > > The study links the abandonment of the background check to an additional 60 or so murders occurring per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012. > > “Coincident exactly with the policy change, there was an immediate upward trajectory to the homicide rates in Missouri,” said Prof Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. > > “That upward trajectory did not happen with homicides that did not involve guns; it did not occur to any neighbouring state; the national trend was doing the opposite – it was trending downward; and it was not specific to one or two localities – it was, for the most part, state-wide,” he told BBC News. > > The team said it took account of changes that occurred in policing levels and incarceration rates, trends in burglaries, and statistically controlled for other possible confounding factors such as shifts in unemployment and poverty. > > What was stark, added Prof Webster, was the rise in the number of handguns that subsequently found their way into the hands of criminals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=196) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=198)