# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 202
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4021 "2014-03-06T21:14:32Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > An Ohio 10 year old boy was [suspended](http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Ohio-student-points-finger-like-gun-is-suspended-5286901.php)for making his finger like a gun and putting it to the head of a classmate. This seems to me to be equal parts stupid and disturbing. The school overreacted just a bit even though they had warned the kids about doing things like this, but it is disturbing that the 10 year old pretended to hold a gun to the head of classmate. > > Maybe the kids are watching too much TV or perhaps this is normal schoolyard games, but this is kind of creepy to me. It’s worse than that. He made a “thip” noise because it was equipped with a finger silencer, and another child was overheard referring to “dum-dums.” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4022 "2014-03-07T10:05:33Z")
News from the smart-guns front: [California store’s sale of smart guns prompts furious backlash](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/california-smart-gun-store-prompts-furious-backlash/2014/03/06/43432058-a544-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html), Washington Post, March 6, 2014 (WaPo has this annoying habit of not showing the dates of their on-line articles; you have to dig to find the date), by Michael S. Rosenwald: > [@](#): > > The California gun store that put the nation’s first smart gun on sale is facing a furious backlash from customers and gun rights advocates who fear the new technology will encroach on their Second Amendment rights if it becomes mandated. The Oak Tree Gun Club became the first to put a smart gun on sale, then backed away and tried its best to pretend it never happened, in the face of massive and vitriolic backlash from the gun right folks. They are afraid that, next thing we know, there will be mandates to use these smart guns. New Jersey, in fact, has a law mandating smart guns within three years of it first going on sale anywhere in the United States. So the gun rights folks are particularly concerned that it’s going to happen there. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4023 "2014-03-07T16:04:00Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Namely: how the hell do I, as a gun-owning citizen, balance the risk of \*not \*shooting a burglar/murderer/rapist vs. the risk of shooting, say, my kid’s boyfriend or someone who’s just honestly mistaken about which door he’s banging on? This is why I cannot take the position as espoused by you that the safety of the homeowner is effectively infinitely more valuable than the safety of the home “intruder”–the set of possible reasons that an unknown-to-me-at-3am person might be in my home encompasses a panoply of minor crimes and errors (both theirs and mine) that do not merit death. Hell, suppose my college-age kid comes home unexpectedly after I go to bed and lets herself in, and I wake up to the door closing and the creak on the stairs. My course of action MUST encompass an assessment of the situation that includes the possibility of an unexpected friendly person in the house–and that inherently increases my risk of being harmed by an actual malicious home intruder by reducing my reaction time. I don’t recall saying that the homeowner’s safety is INFINITELY more valuable, can you quote where I say that? I said its not comparable, and the homeowner’s safety is SO much more important that the safety of the home intruder. This was in response to posts that said that we should take on all sorts of risks to try and mitigate the risk to the invader. I don’t think the home invader’s life and safety is anywhere near as important as the homeowner’s life and safety. Where do you get the impression that I would shoot blind into the darkness? Where is this caricature coming from, it borders on straw man? I thought I was pretty clear throughout this thread that I would attempt to identify the intruder first. If that was not clear, let me be clear. I would attempt to identify the intruder before I shot anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4024 "2014-03-07T16:45:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I would attempt to identify the intruder before I shot anyone. What if you make a mistake? ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4025 "2014-03-07T18:48:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t recall saying that the homeowner’s safety is INFINITELY more valuable, can you quote where I say that? I said its not comparable, and the homeowner’s safety is SO much more important that the safety of the home intruder. > > This was in response to posts that said that we should take on all sorts of risks to try and mitigate the risk to the invader. I don’t think the home invader’s life and safety is anywhere near as important as the homeowner’s life and safety. > > Where do you get the impression that I would shoot blind into the darkness? Where is this caricature coming from, it borders on straw man? I thought I was pretty clear throughout this thread that I would attempt to identify the intruder first. If that was not clear, let me be clear. I would attempt to identify the intruder before I shot anyone. I am guessing that the impression is coming from the fact that most encounters with home invaders comes at night, in the dark and that in a situation like that you are not going to have ample lighting and only a split second to make a “shoot or no” decision. I am guessing that there is an impression that you are less likely to make a rational, well thought out decision when you encounter a dark figure in your house during a time when you are amped up from fear and uncertainty and insecure enough to have grabbed your gun in the first place, than you think sitting calm and rationally at your computer. Tha is how most of those accidental shootings happen. We have no reason to assume you will fair any better. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4026 "2014-03-07T20:31:30Z")
I think that “most of those accidental shootings happen” when the resident/shooter displays really bad judgment. Bad judgment is a problem, but it does not mean that good judgment cannot exist. For instance, I think we can all agree that shooting at shadows or through doors/walls is really bad judgment. As was said above, the devil is in the details of discerning the intruder’s intent. If somebody breaks down my door or smashes my window and comes inside, I’ll take that as a pretty strong indication that I (me and mine) will be in danger. I’ll still try to see if I can recognize the person, assuming it’s just one, in case it turns out to be my drunken neighbor thinking he’s messing with his wife. If it is more than one though, I’ll be quite confident that two people aren’t making the same mistake simultaneously, and conclude nefarious intent. Either way, once he or they are inside and begin gathering my artworks or kicking my dog, I’d feel justified in shooting them. On the other hand, if I wake up to pee and see someone, or the shadow of someone, lurking in my living room or on the stairs (or whatever) I am not going to just blast away. It might indeed be some relative or friend entering with no harmful intent at all. Or it might be a really dangerous intruder. But I know my own house, and an intruder doesn’t. I know where the light switches are. I can retreat to someplace else in the house, call 911, and put one hand on my pistol and the other on a light switch. If he/she comes into the room I’ll turn on the lights. That should decide matters. I’ll either recognize the intruder or not. He/she will either bolt for the exit, or make some threatening move toward me. If the later, I’ll be prepared to shoot. If the former, I’ll let him go. Can I really be this composed, in the middle of the night, with an intruder in my house? I hope so. Might I make a mistake? Certainly. How would I feel if that happened? Horrible, for the rest of my life. I’ve thought about these scenarios a few times, over the decades. I’ve tried to understand how a quite liberal old hippie happens to like guns and shooting sports. And, having guns in the house already, I’ve done some self examination regarding situations like those above. But honestly, I’m not paranoid, not fearful at all. I live in a seemingly safe residential community, and all my guns are presently under lock and key. I don’t have a “bedside gun”. And I know full well that many home-invasions happen much too swiftly for the victims to react even if a gun was handy. So, while I’ve given it some thought, it isn’t an important factor in the way I live my life. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4027 "2014-03-08T01:45:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Where do you get the impression that I would shoot blind into the darkness? Where is this caricature coming from, it borders on straw man? > [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > the safety of the home owner is SO much more important than the safety of the intruder that **I would not even engage in minimal risk to ensure the safety of the intruder** Bolding mine. That sure SOUNDS like shooting prior to positive identification to me. Turning on a light, calling out, keeping the safety on until you have a positive ID – all of those things involve much more than “minimal risk” to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4028 "2014-03-08T02:42:19Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Bolding mine. > > That sure SOUNDS like shooting prior to positive identification to me. Turning on a light, calling out, keeping the safety on until you have a positive ID – all of those things involve much more than “minimal risk” to yourself. But turning on a light, calling out, and keeping the safety engaged are all steps t ensure the safety of the home residents. He didn’t say he wouldn’t engage in minimal risk towards that goal, did he? You seem to have adopted the most absurd interpretation of his words possible. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4029 "2014-03-08T02:48:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You seem to have adopted the most absurd interpretation of his words possible. Jealous? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4030 "2014-03-09T15:40:28Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What if you make a mistake? I’d feel almost as bad as I would feel if I made the mistake the other way and let an intruder overpower me and kill my family. Obviously if the guy gets on the floor and puts his hands behind his head or something, I wouldn’t feel the need to shoot him. > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > I am guessing that the impression is coming from the fact that most encounters with home invaders comes at night, in the dark and that in a situation like that you are not going to have ample lighting and only a split second to make a “shoot or no” decision. I am guessing that there is an impression that you are less likely to make a rational, well thought out decision when you encounter a dark figure in your house during a time when you are amped up from fear and uncertainty and insecure enough to have grabbed your gun in the first place, than you think sitting calm and rationally at your computer. Tha is how most of those accidental shootings happen. We have no reason to assume you will fair any better. If there is an unidentified intruder in my house in the middle of the night, what would you do? I’ve already said I would rack my shotgun in the international signal for “get the fuck out of my house” and I would attempt to identify the intruder, what more would YOU do? > [@CannyDan](#): > > I think that “most of those accidental shootings happen” when the resident/shooter displays really bad judgment. Bad judgment is a problem, but it does not mean that good judgment cannot exist. For instance, I think we can all agree that shooting at shadows or through doors/walls is really bad judgment. As was said above, the devil is in the details of discerning the intruder’s intent. > > If somebody breaks down my door or smashes my window and comes inside, I’ll take that as a pretty strong indication that I (me and mine) will be in danger. I’ll still try to see if I can recognize the person, assuming it’s just one, in case it turns out to be my drunken neighbor thinking he’s messing with his wife. If it is more than one though, I’ll be quite confident that two people aren’t making the same mistake simultaneously, and conclude nefarious intent. Either way, once he or they are inside and begin gathering my artworks or kicking my dog, I’d feel justified in shooting them. > > On the other hand, if I wake up to pee and see someone, or the shadow of someone, lurking in my living room or on the stairs (or whatever) I am not going to just blast away. It might indeed be some relative or friend entering with no harmful intent at all. Or it might be a really dangerous intruder. But I know my own house, and an intruder doesn’t. I know where the light switches are. I can retreat to someplace else in the house, call 911, and put one hand on my pistol and the other on a light switch. If he/she comes into the room I’ll turn on the lights. That should decide matters. I’ll either recognize the intruder or not. He/she will either bolt for the exit, or make some threatening move toward me. If the later, I’ll be prepared to shoot. If the former, I’ll let him go. > > Can I really be this composed, in the middle of the night, with an intruder in my house? I hope so. Might I make a mistake? Certainly. How would I feel if that happened? Horrible, for the rest of my life. > > I’ve thought about these scenarios a few times, over the decades. I’ve tried to understand how a quite liberal old hippie happens to like guns and shooting sports. And, having guns in the house already, I’ve done some self examination regarding situations like those above. But honestly, I’m not paranoid, not fearful at all. I live in a seemingly safe residential community, and all my guns are presently under lock and key. I don’t have a “bedside gun”. And I know full well that many home-invasions happen much too swiftly for the victims to react even if a gun was handy. So, while I’ve given it some thought, it isn’t an important factor in the way I live my life. +1 > [@Zeriel](#): > > Bolding mine. > > That sure SOUNDS like shooting prior to positive identification to me. Turning on a light, calling out, keeping the safety on until you have a positive ID – all of those things involve much more than “minimal risk” to yourself. Then you’re hearing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4031 "2014-03-09T18:18:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’d feel almost as bad as I would feel if I made the mistake the other way and let an intruder overpower me and kill my family. Either way, someone in your family is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4032 "2014-03-10T05:16:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You seem to have adopted the most absurd interpretation of his words possible. Turnabout being fair play, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4033 "2014-03-10T18:47:37Z")
[Pennsylvania State Trooper blows pregnant wife’s brains out with handgun.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/10/pennsylvania-trooper-fatally-shoots-pregnant-wife-in-the-head-while-cleaning-his-gun/) So, it’s a real toughie. Does the N.R.A. pay for his defense? Wasting your wife whilst polishing up your 2nd Amendment Rights is a no-brainer ( heh ), but… well… the fetus died and in SOME states, that makes him guilty of two murders. What happens when a gun nut kills an unborn child? Is he to be defended or derided? Gosh. What a pickle ! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4034 "2014-03-10T21:10:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Either way, someone in your family is dead. Or I could try not to kill a member of my family. :rolleyes: > [@Cartooniverse](#): > > [Pennsylvania State Trooper blows pregnant wife’s brains out with handgun.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/10/pennsylvania-trooper-fatally-shoots-pregnant-wife-in-the-head-while-cleaning-his-gun/) > > So, it’s a real toughie. Does the N.R.A. pay for his defense? Wasting your wife whilst polishing up your 2nd Amendment Rights is a no-brainer ( heh ), but… well… the fetus died and in SOME states, that makes him guilty of two murders. What happens when a gun nut kills an unborn child? Is he to be defended or derided? > > Gosh. What a pickle ! So are you saying we should take away guns from our cops too? And BTW, when does the NRA pay for the defense of people who are guilty of negligent homicide? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4035 "2014-03-10T21:11:35Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Turnabout being fair play, and all that. In what way is that turnabout? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4036 "2014-03-11T01:33:59Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > [Pennsylvania State Trooper blows pregnant wife’s brains out with handgun.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/10/pennsylvania-trooper-fatally-shoots-pregnant-wife-in-the-head-while-cleaning-his-gun/) > > So, it’s a real toughie. Does the N.R.A. pay for his defense? Wasting your wife whilst polishing up your 2nd Amendment Rights is a no-brainer ( heh ), but… well… the fetus died and in SOME states, that makes him guilty of two murders. What happens when a gun nut kills an unborn child? Is he to be defended or derided? > > Gosh. What a pickle ! Pretty disingenuous blaming the N.R.A., the 2nd Amendment and “gun nuts” for this when it was a STATE TROOPER- you know, the trained experts who are so much more qualified to possess guns then those drooling troglodytes we call “the public”. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4037 "2014-03-11T02:03:40Z")
> **[Gun found in field by children, fires unexpectedly](https://www.ksl.com/article/28963611)** > > The Davis County Sheriff is warning parents of > the importance of talking to their children > about gun safety, after some elementary-age > children in Fruit Heights discovered a loaded > gun in a field and it went off. For God’s sake people, whether you like guns or not, educate your kids about how to be safe with guns at least as much as you would want them to be educated about how to be safe with sex. It might not make a difference but then again it might. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4038 "2014-03-11T02:55:39Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Pretty disingenuous blaming the N.R.A., the 2nd Amendment and “gun nuts” for this when it was a STATE TROOPER- you know, the trained experts who are so much more qualified to possess guns then those drooling troglodytes we call “the public”. The point you’re so strenuously missing is that there is _no one_ who you can confidently say can be trusted not to cause a needless death with a gun. _No one._ So kindly stop pretending, drop the “law-abiding citizen” crap and the “trained professional” crap and face reality like a sane, responsible adult. Clear? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4039 "2014-03-11T03:08:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The point you’re so strenuously missing is that there is _no one_ who you can confidently say can be trusted not to cause a needless death with a gun. _No one._ > > So kindly stop pretending, drop the “law-abiding citizen” crap and the “trained professional” crap and face reality like a sane, responsible adult. Clear? No, not clear at all. Are you really suggesting disarming the police? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4040 "2014-03-11T14:59:44Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > No, not clear at all. Are you really suggesting disarming the police? We should definitely disarm the one that shot his pregnant wife in the head while cleaning his gun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=201) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=203)