# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 226
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4501 "2015-04-10T03:03:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [In Kansas, Gov. Brownback signs bill allowing concealed carry without a permit.](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/02/gun_nuts_latest_victory_sam_brownback_signs_law_allowing_concealed_carry_without_a_permit/) As a licensed Kansas CCW holder, I was and am appalled at this law. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4502 "2015-04-10T04:37:02Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > As a licensed Kansas CCW holder, I was and am appalled at this law. Why? I’m not convinced about constitutional carry but I don’t have a problem with it per se. Kansas becomes the 6th state in the union to enact it. Now you can say that more than 10% of the states are constitutional carry. The battle over shall issue has essentially been won. In every state that it’s realisticly possible to pass those laws they have done so and 40+ states are now shall issue or constitutional carry. The new battle will be constitutional carry. I hope in a couple decades we can look back as we now do at the shall issue movement and see that constitutional carry is how it should have been all along. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4503 "2015-04-10T05:09:47Z")
What the hell is “constitutional carry”? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4504 "2015-04-10T05:12:44Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What the hell is “constitutional carry”? [First hit on google.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_carry) > [@](#): > > In the United States, the term constitutional carry is a neologism for the legal carrying of handgun, either openly or concealed, without the requirement of a government permit.[1][2][3] The phrase does not typically refer to the unrestricted carrying of a long gun, a knife, or other weapons. The scope and applicability of such laws or proposed legislation can vary from state to state. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4505 "2015-04-10T06:37:45Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > What I don’t get is why gun-related deaths are considered a holocaust-level crisis _now_, any more than at any time in the last 150 years. Revolvers date to the Civil War era, semi-automatics to the end of the 19th century. Murders, suicides, lethal accidents, and even massacres committed with firearms have been happening all along. Why weren’t people demanding stricter gun control for example after [a maniac killed 8 and wounded 32 back in 1915](http://www.glynngen.com/history/bwkmassacre.htm)? > > The only reason I can see is that back then crimes were considered the evil deeds of individuals who had abdicated moral responsibility, to be addressed by upbringing and retribution. Now they’re considered the epidemiological result of social forces, to be addressed by changes in the social environment, including the availability of weapons. Who has killed more people; Americans or Hitler? It’s not really a question, more a different viewpoint on your reply. The ‘back then’ response is justified in the Wild West, but totally not with the Holocaust. Rightly so in the latter, but considered ‘a part of life’ in the former. Okay, Hitler’s killing was racist, bigoted, an extermination of a people - wrong on many levels, evil, nasty, corrupt, inhuman, and we rightly cast a very negative light on all of what happened back then. The news is often about white or black people killing black people, brown people killing brown people and I see (not on here) comments about how ISIS, Saudi, Iran and Syria should be nuked from orbit. Crazy. Like the Third Reich were crazy. The USA has killed maybe 30 or 40 million people since 1945, not as bad as Mao or Pol Pot and was/is supported by most or all of its allies, but a huge figure. The Right to Bare Arms is a part of American culture - I appreciate that and support you guys. But (you know there was a ‘but’ coming) going to other countries to exterminate people is different. ‘Supporting Our Soldiers (State-Sponsored Murderers)’ - come on! What the fuck is that all about? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4506 "2015-04-10T13:05:30Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > “Gun Nuts’”. “trigger happy”. Is [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) just the _teensiest_ bit scornful of conservative values? :dubious: Can you explain, in little words, just why the ability to conceal a personal weapon without informing the guvmint is such a quintessential “conservative value”? Is it just that the guvmint is compiling lists so they can vaccinate gunowners’ children with autism? Why in particular, do law-abiding carriers need or want concealed carry anyway? Is it primarly so they can pass for responsible while ready to inflict vengeance? I hope to get more intelligible answers than when I asked the same question about law-abiding citizens wanting silencers (“Some people want silencers because they want silencers, duh!!”) but I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4507 "2015-04-10T13:08:35Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What the hell is “constitutional carry”? You can carry a flintlock musket as long as it’s for militia use. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4508 "2015-04-10T13:13:00Z")
100 days into 2015 and at least 300 people have been killed by police so far, with January 10 (probably) the only day so far without one: > **[Police Killings in America, Day By Day](https://medium.com/matter/january-10-was-probably-the-only-day-in-2015-that-no-one-was-killed-by-cops-a6d61fcf804)** > > 100 days into 2015, and more than 300 people have died at the hands of law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4509 "2015-04-10T13:23:33Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > Who has killed more people; Americans or Hitler?\ WTF did anything I said have to do with American military intervention post-WW2? > [@septimus](#): > > Can you explain, in little words, just why the ability to conceal a personal weapon without informing the guvmint is such a quintessential “conservative value”? That’s the tone the Salon article took: snarkily lumping Constitutional Carry in with tax cuts, anti-abortion laws and repealing LGBT protections. Take it up with Luke Brinker, Salon’s politics editor. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4510 "2015-04-10T13:50:51Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > That’s the tone the Salon article took: snarkily lumping Constitutional Carry in with tax cuts, anti-abortion laws and repealing LGBT protections. Take it up with Luke Brinker, Salon’s politics editor. 😕 😕 I’m sure there are lots and lots of intelligent responsible progressive-thinking Americans who own guns and favor gun rights. BUT, although the correlation coefficient isn’t unity, there is HUGE correlation between gun-toters and homophobes, racists, tax ignoramuses and all the other 'ists and 'amuses that have reduced today’s American politics to a sick joke. Do you deny that? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4511 "2015-04-10T14:44:57Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 😕 > I’m sure there are lots and lots of intelligent responsible progressive-thinking Americans who own guns and favor gun rights. > > BUT, although the correlation coefficient isn’t unity, there is HUGE correlation between gun-toters and homophobes, racists, tax ignoramuses and all the other 'ists and 'amuses that have reduced today’s American politics to a sick joke. > > Do you deny that? No, and I think I misunderstood your previous question. Why is there a correlation between firearms and other [del]reactionary[/del] conservative positions? I think mainly it boils down to “Who the fuck are you to tell me what to do?” (With banning abortion the major exception). ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4512 "2015-04-10T15:05:25Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Why? I’m not convinced about constitutional carry but I don’t have a problem with it per se. Kansas becomes the 6th state in the union to enact it. Now you can say that more than 10% of the states are constitutional carry. > > The battle over shall issue has essentially been won. In every state that it’s realisticly possible to pass those laws they have done so and 40+ states are now shall issue or constitutional carry. The new battle will be constitutional carry. I hope in a couple decades we can look back as we now do at the shall issue movement and see that constitutional carry is how it should have been all along. I do not believe anyone should carry a gun on a regular basis, concealed or not, without training or proof of training. IMO “constitutional carry” will lead to some carrying daily and being careless with their gun. By eliminating the training requirement I believe there is a significant probability of greater accidents and incidents. I base this purely upon my observation of human behavior, and how utterly careless and stupid the average person can be. The bar to get a CCW permit in Kansas was not trivial, but it was low enough that any responsible person could do so. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4513 "2015-04-10T15:55:28Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I do not believe anyone should carry a gun on a regular basis, concealed or not, without training or proof of training. IMO “constitutional carry” will lead to some carrying daily and being careless with their gun. By eliminating the training requirement I believe there is a significant probability of greater accidents and incidents. > > I base this purely upon my observation of human behavior, and how utterly careless and stupid the average person can be. The bar to get a CCW permit in Kansas was not trivial, but it was low enough that any responsible person could do so. Perhaps the relationship of carrying and training should be inverted: instead of saying you **can’t** carry **unless** you’ve gotten training, maybe a state could say that you **must** get training **if** you carry. It could be legally considered the modern equivalent of the militia muster requirement, a citizenship duty like jury duty. Technically it wouldn’t infringe on anyone’s right to carry but scofflaws could face misdemeanor penalties for not doing the mandated drill. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4514 "2015-04-10T16:34:26Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > WTF did anything I said have to do with American military intervention post-WW2?. Okay, but it raises the point; how many civil gun crimes are committed/caused by ex-servicemen with serious PTSD? Or the children of them? Or their nearest and dearest? Or the children or friends (or gang) of those killed? And the fetishism of War - America being called a ‘War Machine’ - along with shoot 'em up games and hip hop sensationalizing gun culture, a whole genre of Hollywood movies sensationalizing war - note the dates when Pearl Harbor, Black Hawk Down [and others](http://www.films101.com/wary.htm) came out. Don’t get me wrong; I love firing a weapon in a range. A very secure, safe place, and I drive safely but needed training and testing before being able to operate a potentially lethal weapon. That is all a gun is! A weapon, at least a car’s primary and sole reason d’etre is not to kill or injury people. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4515 "2015-04-10T17:06:29Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I do not believe anyone should carry a gun on a regular basis, concealed or not, without training or proof of training. IMO “constitutional carry” will lead to some carrying daily and being careless with their gun. By eliminating the training requirement I believe there is a significant probability of greater accidents and incidents. > > I base this purely upon my observation of human behavior, and how utterly careless and stupid the average person can be. The bar to get a CCW permit in Kansas was not trivial, but it was low enough that any responsible person could do so. This is a similar concern that was raised during the shall issue movement. None of these widespread negative impacts have been realized. There are of course isolated incidents of great levels of stupidity and malice but on balance the predictions of detractors have not come to pass. Before Kansas, 5 other states have been constitutional carry and it has worked fine. [Check out this animated gif](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif) that shows how things have progressed over time from 1986 to now. I’d like to see the whole thing green. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4516 "2015-04-10T17:22:39Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > “Gun Nuts’”. “trigger happy”. Is [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) just the _teensiest_ bit scornful of conservative values? :dubious: Of course it is, it has the same general politics and editorial slant as _The Nation, Mother Jones, In These Times_ and AlterNet. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4517 "2015-04-10T21:45:33Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is a similar concern that was raised during the shall issue movement. None of these widespread negative impacts have been realized. There are of course isolated incidents of great levels of stupidity and malice but on balance the predictions of detractors have not come to pass. Before Kansas, 5 other states have been constitutional carry and it has worked fine. [Check out this animated gif](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif) that shows how things have progressed over time from 1986 to now. I’d like to see the whole thing green. I don’t _assert_ that it _has_ been a problem. I _opine_ that the responsibility of carrying a firearm implies a due diligence to understand its safe operation, storage, handling, and use. Perhaps it’s being an engineer, but I’m fairly used to training requirements for using machines or tools. A gun is simply a machine - it’s not magical, it’s not evil, it’s a machine. When misused, it can cause injury or death. No banning, no registration, just training in the general safe life around guns. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4518 "2015-04-10T23:09:19Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I don’t _assert_ that it _has_ been a problem. I _opine_ that the responsibility of carrying a firearm implies a due diligence to understand its safe operation, storage, handling, and use. Perhaps it’s being an engineer, but I’m fairly used to training requirements for using machines or tools. A gun is simply a machine - it’s not magical, it’s not evil, it’s a machine. When misused, it can cause injury or death. No banning, no registration, just training in the general safe life around guns. Una, my sense is that up until just a few years ago, your position used to be the prevailing view of gun advocates. One of healthy respect and responsibility. The idea of unfettered access was kind of fringe. Now the prevailing view seems much different. Am I mistaken in that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4519 "2015-04-11T18:25:32Z")
[Wayne LaPierre:](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/wayne-lapierres-grotesque-warning-hillary-clinton-will-bring-a-permanent-darkness-of-deceit-and-despair/) > [@](#): > > National Rifle Association (NRA) executive vice president Wayne LaPierre railed against the possibility of Hillary Clinton becoming president during his remarks at the group’s annual leadership forum in Nashville on Friday, Right Wing Watch reported. > > “She will not bring a new dawn of promise and new opportunity,” LaPierre argued. “Hillary Rodham Clinton will bring a permanent darkness of deceit and despair, forced upon the American people to endure.” Y’know, the NRA is not **essentially** a politically conservative or RW organization. A Communist can be just as good a member as any other. Does none of the membership object that LaPierre is going way, way beyond gun-rights politics here? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4520 "2015-04-11T18:29:43Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Una, my sense is that up until just a few years ago, your position used to be the prevailing view of gun advocates. One of healthy respect and responsibility. That was what the NRA was all about, once upon a time. [It even used to endorse gun-control legislation.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association#Contemporary_history) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=225) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=227)