# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 241
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4801 "2015-06-17T21:46:48Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Yeah, \*\*esch \*\*(can I call you **esch**?) can’t you come up with something a little more clever and erudite? Like accusing him of wanting to rape toddlers or something? Just how far up ElvisL1ves’s ass are you willing to stick your tongue? If he had the intellectual honesty and personal integrity to simply say “I don’t want to rape and murder toddlers and I never would. My whole “bad day” schtick was poorly thought out, hyperbolic bullshit,” I’d have let this go long since. Two things are genuinely amazing, though. 1. He is returning to that line of bullshit again, right here in this thread in the lastday or so. 2. You are willing to defend a morally bankrupt, dishonest piece of shit like him because he is “on your side.” ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4802 "2015-06-17T23:38:52Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > And I know you’re not addressing _ME_ with this, but…Not necessarily. But if you _were_ to go on a killing spree armed with your weapon of choice then you would almost certainly be able to kill a LOT more people in a given period of time than you would be if you were armed with a baseball bat or a knife or a shard of glass. What do you think a fellow could do with a can of lighter fluid? > **[UpStairs Lounge arson attack](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpStairs_Lounge_arson_attack)** > > The UpStairs Lounge arson attack, sometimes called the UpStairs Lounge Fire, occurred on June 24, 1973, at a gay bar called the UpStairs (or Up Stairs) Lounge located on the 2nd floor of the 3-story building at 604 Iberville Street in New Orleans, Louisiana, in the United States. Thirty-two people died and 15 were injured as a result of fire or smoke inhalation. The official cause is still listed as "undetermined origin". The primary suspect, a gay man with a history of psychiatric impai Until ... ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4803 "2015-06-17T23:46:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes, you may be less of a threat than that posed by an emotionally-disturbed child like **Scumpup** , but that’s only a matter of degree, isn’t it? Emtionally disturbed child? This coming from someone so damaged that he won’t admit to NOT wanting to rape and murder toddlers because that would cause him to “lose” on the internet? It’s too bad your dad didn’t succeed in talking your mom into anal the night you were conceived…or DID he? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4804 "2015-06-18T01:28:23Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > That seemed like a clever insult to you? This is your idea of a cutting remark? Wow. No, I am saying you are _both_ being assholes. Not that this thread lacks for the shitstorm of dueling assholes, mind you. Occasionally, there will be a post that is reasonable and devoid of assholery, but those posts almost always get noised into obscurity. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > (can I call you **esch**?) Can I stop you? It looks pretty silly and ignorant, but if saving yourself 5 keystrokes will keep you from going all batty, do what you have to do. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4805 "2015-06-18T08:47:23Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > And I know you’re not addressing _ME_ with this, but…Not necessarily. But if you _were_ to go on a killing spree armed with your weapon of choice then you would almost certainly be able to kill a LOT more people in a given period of time than you would be if you were armed with a baseball bat or a knife or a shard of glass. What if I had a swimming pool? WHAT THEN? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4806 "2015-06-18T10:32:40Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Cop murders ex-wife while child looks on: [Off-Duty New Jersey Police Officer Charged With Murdering Ex-Wife in Front of Daughter, 7: Prosecutor – NBC New York](http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Police-Officer-Involved-Shooting-Jersey-Shore-Woman-Injured-Philip--307671101.html) > [@](#): > > A 30-minute standoff between members of law enforcement and Seidle ensued, prosecutors said; Seidle had a gun to his head the whole time. Law enforcement officers talked to him and ultimately managed to convince him to put the weapon down and surrender, according to officials. So, a cop who just gunned down a woman in front of her child and has a gun in his hand gets talked into surrendering but a 12 year old boy playing in the park gets summarily executed? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4807 "2015-06-18T12:17:39Z")
Yeah but doncha know that cops lives are more important than those of mere children? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4808 "2015-06-18T12:38:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > What if I had a swimming pool? WHAT THEN? What if you had an ax? Or a propane tank? [http://www.firerescue1.com/Arson-Investigation/articles/2180065-Man-charged-in-fatal-arson-did-time-for-ax-murder/](http://www.firerescue1.com/Arson-Investigation/articles/2180065-Man-charged-in-fatal-arson-did-time-for-ax-murder/) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4809 "2015-06-18T13:00:34Z")
What if I had a pointed stick? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4810 "2015-06-18T13:06:47Z")
I would run away. I don’t know how to defend against a pointed stick, only fresh fruit. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4811 "2015-06-18T14:47:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Of course. People with the means to kill, at the moment they want to, are more likely to kill than those who lack the means. Everyone has the means to kill, there are no shortage of deadly things. You seem to be claiming that owning a gun increases the likelihood that I **will** kill someone. You don’t think murder has a psychological component? You’re implying that we are all hard-wired to kill each other at the drop of a hat and gun owners are more likely to be killers because they have a different means of killing people. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How is that unclear? Are you of the view that having a gun makes you \*immune \*to anger? Now you’re straying into the ridiculous. I have been angry many, many times, and yet I’ve never felt like grabbing a gun over it. You also seem to think that gun owners just have guns lying around, ready to snatch up. In order for me to shoot, I have to go down a spiral staircase into the basement, find and open the hidden thingy that has the key for the gun safe, open it, remove the gun, then find and open the other hidden thingy that has the key for ammunition safe, open the ammo can that has the cartridges in it, go back upstairs, etc, etc,. It’s probably a 10 to 15 minute process, depending on how good I am at remembering where I hid the keys last time. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4812 "2015-06-18T14:47:35Z")
About this Defensive Gun Use thing that DA insists is real and trumps all other considerations? [Not so much.](http://thehill.com/regulation/245280-gun-owners-not-likely-to-use-firearms-for-self-defense-study-claims) > [@](#): > > According to the study, gun owners committed 259 justifiable homicides compared to 8,342 criminal homicides in 2012, the most recent year data was available. > > That means gun owners are 32 times more likely to kill someone without cause than to act in self-defense, the study reasoned. But the NRA would rather have you “believe” their own polls rather than data, of course: > [@](#): > > Recent polling shows that most Americans believe exercising their constitutional right to self-protection makes them safer and this is just another transparent attempt to push gun control. And the killings continue … ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4813 "2015-06-18T15:04:02Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > Everyone has the means to kill, there are no shortage of deadly things. But having one at hand makes it easier and likelier, doesn’t it? > [@](#): > > [You seem to be claiming that owning a gun increases the likelihood that I **will** kill someone. You’re the same person with or without it. With it, you can kill more easily. And, given that assholes are more likely than non-assholes to even want to have guns, the fact of possession makes you more likely than average to \*be \*an asshole, doesn’t it? Tell us, do you see more an anger-management problem around you from the progressives, or from the likes of **Scumpup**? More of a delusion problem from the progressives, or from the likes of **DA**? How safe are you from being as dangerous as them, and how do we know, and how do _you_ know? > [@](#): > > You don’t think murder has a psychological component? Of course it does. Do you think there’s an effective way to save lives by attacking that problem instead of restricting their means to act on their psychology? How do you go about changing basic human nature? Or is that just an avoidance tactic? > [@](#): > > You’re implying that we are all hard-wired to kill each other at the drop of a hat and gun owners are more likely to be killers because they have a different means of killing people. Tweeett!!! Excluded middle, fifteen yards, loss of down. That too is an avoidance tactic, btw. > [@](#): > > I have been angry many, many times, and yet I’ve never felt like grabbing a gun over it. Many, many other people have made that claim before - until it happened. Now how do I know you’re not one of them? Hell, how do \*you \*know? > [@](#): > > You also seem to think that gun owners just have guns lying around, ready to snatch up. They often do. Their children are more likely to die, though, when they find them and play with them. > [@](#): > > In order for me to shoot, I have to go down a spiral staircase into the basement, find open the hidden thingy that has the key for the gun safe, open it, remove the gun, then find and open the other hidden thingy that has the key for ammunition safe, open the ammo can that has the cartridges in it, go back upstairs, etc, etc,. It’s probably a 10 to 15 minute process, depending on how good I am at remembering where I hid the keys last time. Then you’re not claiming you need it for self-defense, are you? That’s a start, at least. You want to hunt meat, you want to punch holes in paper, fine. You want to entertain fantasies about resisting government tyranny, not so fine. You want to envision yourself in a movie about confronting the Bad Guys and emerging not only victorious but still a Good Guy? Not so fine. It isn’t complicated. The civilized world, i.e. most of it, has this all figured out already. It’s the extent of the psychological affliction in much of the US that has held us back, and gotten so many of us killed. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4814 "2015-06-18T15:11:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > About this Defensive Gun Use thing that DA insists is real and trumps all other considerations? [Not so much.](http://thehill.com/regulation/245280-gun-owners-not-likely-to-use-firearms-for-self-defense-study-claims) > > > [@](#): > > > > According to the study, gun owners committed 259 justifiable homicides compared to 8,342 criminal homicides in 2012, the most recent year data was available. > > That means gun owners are 32 times more likely to kill someone without cause than to act in self-defense, the study reasoned. I just looked up the FBI homicide statistics for 2012. There were 6,205 homicides that were not part of another felony. Of those 158 were from rifles, and 178 were from shotguns, for a total of 336 ( I do not own a handgun, only rifles and shotguns). 472 were from “hands, fists, feet.” and 275 from hammers and blunt objects, for a total of 707. That means people with fists and hammers are **210%** more likely to kill you than I am. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4815 "2015-06-18T15:14:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re the same person with or without it. I do not believe that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4816 "2015-06-18T15:18:24Z")
I’m trying to be generous, and close off an out. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4817 "2015-06-18T15:29:49Z")
So, ElvisL1ves, how many times have people lived only because you didn’t have a gun? ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4818 "2015-06-18T15:30:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re the same person with or without it. With it, you can kill more easily. And, given that assholes are more likely than non-assholes to even want to have guns, the fact of possession makes you more likely than average to \*be \*an asshole, doesn’t it? Tell us, do you see more an anger-management problem around you from the progressives, or from the likes of **Scumpup**? More of a delusion problem from the progressives, or from the likes of **DA**? How safe are you from being as dangerous as them, and how do we know, and how do _you_ know? First, I don’t agree that “assholes are more likely to want guns”, it’s pure _ad hominem_ guilt by association. And secondly, I live in Wisconsin, you’ve never _seen_ angrier progressives than we have with Scott Walker as their governor. (P.S. I consider myself a progressive on ~80% of the issues) ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4819 "2015-06-18T15:41:30Z")
And now I’ve just read about the Charleston shootings so I’m done here for today, I don’t have the stomach to defend gun ownership for a while. Obviously I’m not anti-gun, but I am finding myself increasingly anti to the gun culture in this country. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4820 "2015-06-18T16:31:40Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > First, I don’t agree that “assholes are more likely to want guns”, it’s pure _ad hominem_ guilt by association. Perhaps there is a semantic/syllogistic distinction to be made here. The assertion that “_assholes are more likely to want guns_” is not the same as saying “_those who want guns are more likely to be assholes_”. There are a lot of variables, inasmuch as people are a diverse bunch. Though I am not sure that **ElvisL1ves** meant to frame it that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=240) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=242)