# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 245
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4881 "2015-06-26T14:59:30Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Yeah, \*\*esch \*\*(can I call you **esch**?) can’t you come up with something a little more clever and erudite? Like accusing him of wanting to rape toddlers or something? I think you’re missing the point of why he is asking the question. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4882 "2015-06-26T15:01:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Face it-Nobody outside of your small circle has heard of your made-up word, no one outside of your small circle is ever going to use your made-up word, and those few of us that don’t use it but are subjected to it recognize it for what it actually is-a clumsy insult. But if he keeps using it, he wins! Something. In his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4883 "2015-06-26T15:01:38Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, a cop who just gunned down a woman in front of her child and has a gun in his hand gets talked into surrendering but a 12 year old boy playing in the park gets summarily executed? I bet I can guess the color of the 12 year old’s skin. Is there a prize? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4884 "2015-06-26T15:01:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think you’re missing the point of why he is asking the question. He’s not very good at debating? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4885 "2015-06-26T15:03:05Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > Everyone has the means to kill, there are no shortage of deadly things. You seem to be claiming that owning a gun increases the likelihood that I **will** kill someone. You don’t think murder has a psychological component? You’re implying that we are all hard-wired to kill each other at the drop of a hat and gun owners are more likely to be killers because they have a different means of killing people. > Now you’re straying into the ridiculous. I have been angry many, many times, and yet I’ve never felt like grabbing a gun over it. > > You also seem to think that gun owners just have guns lying around, ready to snatch up. In order for me to shoot, I have to go down a spiral staircase into the basement, find and open the hidden thingy that has the key for the gun safe, open it, remove the gun, then find and open the other hidden thingy that has the key for ammunition safe, open the ammo can that has the cartridges in it, go back upstairs, etc, etc,. It’s probably a 10 to 15 minute process, depending on how good I am at remembering where I hid the keys last time. Some of us carry a gun on us. We STILL don’t go on rampages. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4886 "2015-06-26T15:03:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But if he keeps using it, he wins! > > Something. > > In his mind. Maybe if he puts it in his signature-“Something something something Hoplophobe something!” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4887 "2015-06-26T15:14:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > About this Defensive Gun Use thing that DA insists is real and trumps all other considerations? [Not so much.](http://thehill.com/regulation/245280-gun-owners-not-likely-to-use-firearms-for-self-defense-study-claims)But the NRA would rather have you “believe” their own polls rather than data, of course:And the killings continue … How many of those 8342 gun murders were committed by people who were legally allowed to possess a gun? Those folks would have had a gun whether you banned guns or not. I think we established that more than half of gun murders are committed by felons. Some significant percentage of gun murders are committed by minors and people who have been convicted of non-felony domestic violence or are the subject of a restraining order. How many of those gun murders would have been replaced with just plain old murder if guns were not available? Those murders would have occurred whether you banned guns or not. You are basically identifying all murders committed with guns and trying to imply that these murders would not have occurred if we passed whatever law it is you wanted to pass. Basically how many of these gun murders are the result of legal access to guns and would not have occurred if t6he murderer did not have legal access to a gun? And 259 legally justified homicides does not mean 259 instances of self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4888 "2015-06-26T15:17:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And, given that assholes are more likely than non-assholes to even want to have guns, the fact of possession makes you more likely than average to \*be \*an asshole, doesn’t it? And there is it. > [@](#): > > More of a delusion problem from the progressives, or from the likes of **DA**? Other than guns, in what way do we differ on political matters? You seem to be insisting that everyone that doesn’t agree with everything that Michael Moore believes is not a progressive You aren’t a progressive, you are a tool of progressives. > [@](#): > > Many, many other people have made that claim before - until it happened.[/ > > Now how do I know you’re not one of them? Hell, how do \*you \*know? > > They often do. Their children are more likely to die, though, when they find them and play with them. > > Then you’re not claiming you need it for self-defense, are you? That’s a start, at least. You want to hunt meat, you want to punch holes in paper, fine. You want to entertain fantasies about resisting government tyranny, not so fine. You want to envision yourself in a movie about confronting the Bad Guys and emerging not only victorious but still a Good Guy? Not so fine. > > It isn’t complicated. The civilized world, i.e. most of it, has this all figured out already. It’s the extent of the psychological affliction in much of the US that has held us back, and gotten so many of us killed. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4889 "2015-06-26T15:20:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Some of us carry a gun on us. We STILL don’t go on rampages. Really. Unfortunately I live in California where it’s practically impossible to get a CCW. So I do the patchwork quilt thing, with NV UT TX & FL. I’m a Marine and a former US Postal Service employee, and I still don’t go on rampages. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4890 "2015-06-26T15:22:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And, given that assholes are more likely than non-assholes to even want to have guns, the fact of possession makes you more likely than average to \*be \*an asshole, doesn’t it? And there is it. > [@](#): > > More of a delusion problem from the progressives, or from the likes of **DA**? Other than guns, in what way do we differ on political matters? You seem to be insisting that everyone that doesn’t agree with everything that Michael Moore believes is not a progressive You aren’t a progressive, you are a tool of progressives. > [@](#): > > Many, many other people have made that claim before - until it happened. And yet, people who legally carry concealed are significantly more law abiding than the average citizen. Heck the rate of murder among legal concealed carriers is lower than the background rate. These are the guys who have the means to murder someone at their beck and call at all times. Why isn’t their murder rate higher than the population average if they are more likely to be assholes? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4891 "2015-06-26T15:23:13Z")
To be fair, **Damuri Ajashi** ’s status as a gun owner is incidental to the reasons we think he’s an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4892 "2015-06-26T15:24:50Z")
[_ **Hoplophone!** _](http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gun+phone&view=detailv2&&&id=6440E7AF461DACDE1D2C5E2E9D17574A63BEA942&selectedIndex=0&ccid=Rm1uWlvn&simid=608005956265118613&thid=JN.ICOd6A8U5%2fA%2f2c6vhSa1yA&ajaxhist=0) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4893 "2015-06-26T15:26:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How many of those 8342 gun murders were committed by people who were legally allowed to possess a gun? Those folks would have had a gun whether you banned guns or not. I think we established that more than half of gun murders are committed by felons. Some significant percentage of gun murders are committed by minors and people who have been convicted of non-felony domestic violence or are the subject of a restraining order. > > How many of those gun murders would have been replaced with just plain old murder if guns were not available? Those murders would have occurred whether you banned guns or not. > > You are basically identifying all murders committed with guns and trying to imply that these murders would not have occurred if we passed whatever law it is you wanted to pass. > > Basically how many of these gun murders are the result of legal access to guns and would not have occurred if t6he murderer did not have legal access to a gun? > > And 259 legally justified homicides does not mean 259 instances of self defense. All excellent questions, and all entirely speculative answers. It’s a pity the NRA does everything possible to prevent any substantive research from being done. Why do you think that is, do you suppose? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4894 "2015-06-26T15:33:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Some of us carry a gun on us. We STILL don’t go on rampages. > [@Bullitt](#): > > I’m a Marine and a former US Postal Service employee, and I still don’t go on rampages. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4895 "2015-06-26T15:48:38Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I thought that statistically that was correct? > > [Study: Guns in home increase suicide, homicide risk - CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suicide-homicide-risk/) > > “Bringing a gun into the home substantially increases the risk for suicide for all family members and the risk for women being murdered in the home” > > [Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9715182/) > > “CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.” These studies were all flawed. One question they could have asked that would have eliminated some flaws would be to ask if the gun was legally possessed in that home. How many of those guns were owned by criminals, wifebeaters and minors. The studies rarely are able to distinguish between causation and correlation. And people present the correlat5ion as if it was causation. One of the first studies in that reached this result also found that there was a higher correlation to being murdered if you rented your home, if you lived alone, if you were a substance abuser, and other random shit. I used to think suicides could be significantly reduced by banning the legal ownership of guns but then I looked at suicide rates and America is dead fucking average among industrialize nations. the only countries that have significantly lower suicide rates seem to be Catholic or Mediterranean. > [@](#): > > I can’t find any papers suggesting that gun owners pose either the same or lower risk of murder. A study of people who carry concealed firearms in Texas showed that these people were significantly more law abiding and committed murder at lower rates. Of course concealed carry holders are not the universe of gun owners but can we at least exclude those who own their guns illegally and limit the inquiry to legal gun owners? > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > As Bill Burr points out, this is of course true, the same way that putting a pool in your backyard substantially increases you risk of drowning. Its a little different because I might get a gun because I fear that I might be murdered. I would never get a pool because I fear I might drown. > [@E-DUB](#): > > Ownership, and more to the point possession, of a gun makes it likelier that there will be fatal consequences to a split-second spate of anger. As Pat Paulsen once said: “Say you come home and find a guy in bed with your wife. What are you going to do, poison him?” How many murders do you think fall into this category? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4896 "2015-06-26T15:55:46Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > Again, I don’t fancy myself as immune to anger, but I believe I have enough self-awareness to know whether I’m capable of murder. I am not a violent person, and I don’t resort to violence to solve problems. Owning a gun does nothing to change that aspect of my nature. > > I don’t think those who murder are “stupid or something” but I do think they are far more likely to be people who use violence as a first response to anger. And they are also likely to get convicted of some other felony that would disqualify them for gun ownership before they murdered someone. The murderer with a clean rap sheet is not really that common. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4897 "2015-06-26T15:59:26Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You’re all over the fucking place. Everyone should be trusted with a gun; but I, personally, \*need \*a gun because the world is such a scary place. > > Then you continually fly off on these retarded flights of fancy about raping children and torturing animals (your diary must be a treat to read) in the classic tactic that gun-strokers apply: “Hey kids, lets talk about \*anything \*but guns because I don’t really have a leg to stand on if we don’t.” > > You’re not fooling anyone. Not everyone should be trusted with guns. We do not trust felons, minors, and wifebeaters with guns. But everyone else can have a gun if they want. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4898 "2015-06-26T16:25:48Z")
Terrorist Massacre at Tunis Beach Resort, at least 27 dead: > **[National Post](https://nationalpost.com/category/news/)** > > Read the latest breaking news in Canada and the rest of the world. We bring all of today's top headlines and stories to your fingertips. Terrorism is difficult to prevent beforehand, despite the best efforts of governments to dismantle terrorist organizations. It’s completely impossible to prevent “lone wolf” agents from picking up guns and dying as martyrs. After the Ma’alot Massacre in Israel in 1974, one of Israel’s responses was to form a Civil Guard program, where civilian volunteers could train to be armed police auxiliaries to keep watch and to be on-the-spot responders. Reportedly, so many would-be gunmen were stopped by such auxiliaries that Palestinian terrorists abandoned gun attacks and switched to bombings. In an era in which state vs. state war is becoming rarer while non-state terrorism is on the rise, maybe an armed populace isn’t such a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4899 "2015-06-26T16:33:12Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I used to think suicides could be significantly reduced by banning the legal ownership of guns but then I looked at suicide rates and America is dead fucking average among industrialize nations. the only countries that have significantly lower suicide rates seem to be Catholic or Mediterranean. Obviously from country to country, the suicide rate will be variable depending on a number of different factors, such as the degree to which suicide is socially accepted by the society, economic conditions etc., and no one is suggesting that restricting guns will cut down the suicide rate by a 10 fold difference, so its not surprising that across countries there is not a clear correlation between number of guns owned and suicide rate. The best study would be to compare a single society with and without guns, as done[here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/). Lack of a gun doesn’t prevent suicide attempts the main thing it seems to do is prevent successful suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4900 "2015-06-26T16:53:49Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Including or excluding the book? I know right! I was like “why did you have to bring game of thrones into this?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=244) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=246)