# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 246
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4901 "2015-06-26T16:57:52Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > How many people in these threads are advocating banning guns, anyway? Seriously? have you not been following this thread? The desire to ban guns ranges from the idiotic (assault weapons ban), to the hopelessly naïve (a total firearms ban). These desires have been expressed repeatedly in this thread. > [@](#): > > Everyone knows that we’re stuck with the ill-considered second amendment, probably forever. The challenge has always been keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and crazies. But every time anyone even points out that there is a problem, the gun lovers flip their shit with the usual garbage about the guvmint and seizures and blah blah fucking blah. Then they start babbling lies about how Democraps want just the criminals to have guns. I have no idea how to put an end to all the shootings, but if there is a solution, I know who won’t be a part of it. If the idiots in charge of the gun control side would realize that they can never get rid of the second amendment and would actually focus on things that would improve gun safety rather than simply restrict legal access to guns, someone (who is not a gun control type) might take them seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4902 "2015-06-26T17:19:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It is not “a second Prohibition in terms of effectiveness” in Britain or Australia – why would it be so here? Are our LEOs so inferior to theirs? To say it has anything to do with “American gun culture” is to say Prohibition can be effective but only in countries where people don’t drink. Yes. What was the rate of firearm ownership before the bans in the UK and Australia? These were countries that effectively didn’t drink very much to begin with. The bans had mild actual effects on gun ownership in those countries. in fact this is the primary excuse presented by gun control folks for why the Australian gun ban did not result in a discernible reduction of gun murders in Australia, there just weren’t that many guns there to begin with. If you want to get rid of guns, you would need to reduce gun ownership to the ted nugents of the world but there are probably more gun owners than registered Republicans or registered Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4903 "2015-06-26T17:24:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Face it-Nobody outside of your small circle has heard of your made-up word, no one outside of your small circle is ever going to use your made-up word, and those few of us that don’t use it but are subjected to it recognize it for what it actually is-a clumsy insult. Well only if you think being called irrational is an insult. Its not meant as an insult, its meant to describe people who are irrational as being irrational. the fact that you are insulted by it does not change the fact that you are being irrational ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4904 "2015-06-26T17:25:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But if he keeps using it, he wins! > > Something. > > In his mind. Well, Czarcasm seems to be saying that if it gets adopted into popular use, that makes it OK. How will that ever happen if we let him quash our first amendment rights to point out irrationality whenever we see it? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4905 "2015-06-26T17:32:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He’s not very good at debating? Elvis makes an argument for banning all guns. His response to why we should ban guns from law abiding citizens is that we can’t trust anyone, not even law abiding citizens with guns because anyone can get pissed off and decide to kill someone and it is much easier to do if you have a gun. This is so unrepresentative of the vast majority of gun murders that it is laughable. The vast majority of gun murders are things that we could not prevent if we eliminated the second amendment tomorrow and confiscated the guns of everyone that would admit to having one. His response to that is that it would be worth it because “if we can prevent even one death…” He refuses to accept the fact that guns can also deter crimes like murder. If we made all guns illegal then only cops and robbers would have guns. I don’t know how he can be so sure that this wouldn’t make the situation worse in a country where almost every criminal has a gun. There is evidence that concealed carry permit holders are even more law abiding that the police. So tell me again how people who carry are one bad day away from being mass murderers. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4906 "2015-06-26T17:37:50Z")
Nothing that’s been said to you has sunk in, even one little bit, has it? Your delusional psychosis makes you invent things you claim others have said, invent their thoughts even, pretend you haven’t been told what you’ve been told … Now put that thing down before somebody gets hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4907 "2015-06-26T17:40:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > All excellent questions, and all entirely speculative answers. It’s a pity the NRA does everything possible to prevent any substantive research from being done. Why do you think that is, do you suppose? We still do of research but they don’t want government dollars to fund biased research. I’m sure the NRA would support federal funding of gun research if the NRA got to conduct all the research. Or if the research could be done at places like George mason university or Florida state. They aren’t the sisters of charity or folks interested in knowledge for knowledge’s sake. They are there to protect second amendment rights. Now back to my questions. Don’t you think it is deceptive to present the information the way it was presented by these researchers who were NOT at the mercy of the NRA when conducting their research or presenting the conclusions the way they did? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4908 "2015-06-26T18:01:15Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Obviously from country to country, the suicide rate will be variable depending on a number of different factors, such as the degree to which suicide is socially accepted by the society, economic conditions etc., and no one is suggesting that restricting guns will cut down the suicide rate by a 10 fold difference, so its not surprising that across countries there is not a clear correlation between number of guns owned and suicide rate. The best study would be to compare a single society with and without guns, as done[here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/). Lack of a gun doesn’t prevent suicide attempts the main thing it seems to do is prevent successful suicide. So why is it that we can point to the fact that we have significantly higher murder rates than the rest of the world and say “AHA SEE THERE!!! Its because America has so many guns” But when we don’t see this disparity we have to look deeper and find another reason for why guns are causing more suicides? The fact of the matter is that our suicide rates are dead fucking average despite having the highest rate of gun ownership among industrialized nations and there is a battle of the experts going on about whether or not there is a significant and sustained reduction in overall suicides as a result of the gun ban. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4909 "2015-06-26T18:51:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Yet. Yes, Yet. Just like you too, hopefully you have not gone on a rampage yet. With your car or any other tool where you can harm others. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4910 "2015-06-26T21:46:02Z")
If that does happen, the body count will be much lower than yours, won’t it? Meanwhile, the car and whatever other tool will be getting used for their _primary, intended_ purposes. Now put that swimming pool down and back away slowly. Nobody needs to get hurt here. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4911 "2015-06-26T21:58:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If that does happen, the body count will be much lower than yours, won’t it? Meanwhile, the car and whatever other tool will be getting used for their _primary, intended_ purposes. > > Now put that swimming pool down and back away slowly. Nobody needs to get hurt here. Put down that IED and back away… an IED or fertilizer bomb will kill a few people, and that’s a type of rampage. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4912 "2015-06-26T22:00:35Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Put down that IED and back away… an IED or fertilizer bomb will kill a few people, and that’s a type of rampage. Can we at least have the same regulations on guns as we have on [ammonium nitrate fertilizer](http://www.dhs.gov/ammonium-nitrate-security-statutes-and-regulations)? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4913 "2015-06-27T12:13:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Nothing that’s been said to you has sunk in, even one little bit, has it? Your delusional psychosis makes you invent things you claim others have said, invent their thoughts even, pretend you haven’t been told what you’ve been told … > > Now put that thing down before somebody gets hurt. Simmer down. I’m afraid he’s irritated you enough that some neighborhood kindergarteners will end up paying the ultimate price. According to you, everybody is one bad day away from murder, and you aren’t so completely intellectually bankrupt that you don’t include yourself are you? So do it for the children, ElvisL1ves, and calm down. You are scaring me and I have a right not to live in fear. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4914 "2015-06-27T15:19:40Z")
Well put. > [@President Obama in Charleston](#): > > For too long, we’ve been blind to the unique mayhem that gun violence inflicts upon this nation. > > (APPLAUSE) > > Sporadically, our eyes are open when eight of our brothers and sisters are cut down in a church basement, 12 in a movie theater, 26 in an elementary school. But I hope we also see the 30 precious lives cut short by gun violence in this country every single day… > > (APPLAUSE) > > … the countless more whose lives are forever changed, the survivors crippled, the children traumatized and fearful every day as they walk to school, the husband who will never feel his wife’s warm touch, the entire communities whose grief overflows every time they have to watch what happened to them happening to some other place. > > The vast majority of Americans, the majority of gun owners want to do something about this. We see that now. > > (APPLAUSE) > > And I’m convinced that by acknowledging the pain and loss of others, even as we respect the traditions, ways of life that make up this beloved country, by making the moral choice to change, we express God’s grace. > [@](#): > > (APPLAUSE) > > None of us should believe that a handful of gun safety measures will prevent every tragedy. > > It will not. People of good will will continue to debate the merits of various policies as our democracy requires — the big, raucous place, America is. And there are good people on both sides of these debates. > > Whatever solutions we find will necessarily be incomplete. But it would be a betrayal of everything Reverend Pinckney stood for, I believe, if we allow ourselves to slip into a comfortable silence again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4915 "2015-06-29T14:51:13Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Can we at least have the same regulations on guns as we have on [ammonium nitrate fertilizer](http://www.dhs.gov/ammonium-nitrate-security-statutes-and-regulations)? In what way is ammonium nitrate more regulated than guns? I can’t be bothered to read the laws, the regulations and proposed regulations to figure out what sort of regulatory scheme is in place but it seems to regulate sale by vendors and does not seem to require a federal background check. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4916 "2015-06-29T14:54:11Z")
The fact of the matter is that guns are a losing political issue for Democrats and as a Democrat, I wish they would either be very clear about what they want or just drop the issue. A “guns are scary and dangerous” platform is just not very good governance. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4917 "2015-06-29T15:04:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In what way is ammonium nitrate more regulated than guns? I can’t be bothered to read the laws, the regulations and proposed regulations to figure out what sort of regulatory scheme is in place but it seems to regulate sale by vendors and does not seem to require a federal background check. PUBLIC LAW 110–161v Section 899a > [@](#): > > —The Secretary shall regulate the sale and transfer of ammonium nitrate by an ammonium nitrate facility in accordance with this subtitle to prevent the misappropriation or use of ammonium nitrate in an act of terrorism > [@](#): > > ‘‘(d) REGISTRATION OF AMMONIUM NITRATE PURCHASERS.— > ‘‘(1) REGISTRATION.—The Secretary shall establish a process by which any person that— > ‘‘(A) intends to be an ammonium nitrate purchaser is required to register with the Department; and > ‘‘(B) registers under subparagraph (A) is issued a registration number for purposes of this subtitle. > [@](#): > > ‘‘(2) REGISTRATION INFORMATION.—Any person applying to register under paragraph (1) as an ammonium nitrate purchaser shall submit to the Secretary— > ‘‘(A) the name, address, and telephone number of the > applicant; and > ‘‘(B) the intended use of ammonium nitrate to be purchased > by the applicant. > [@](#): > > ‘‘(1) REGISTRATION PROCEDURES.— > ‘‘(A) GENERALLY.—The Secretary shall establish procedures to efficiently receive applications for registration numbers under this subtitle, conduct the checks required under paragraph (2), and promptly issue or deny a registration number. > ‘ ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4918 "2015-06-29T15:32:47Z")
That isn’t much different than for buying a gun in California. But California is more strict than other states. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4919 "2015-06-29T15:38:29Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > That isn’t much different than for buying a gun in California. But California is more strict than other states. Even gun shows and private sales? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/4920 "2015-06-29T15:47:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Even gun shows and private sales? There is no difference between a private party sale and an FFL sale of firearms in CA. All must go through an FFL, have a background check, and are subject to the 10 day waiting period. There are exceptions for interfamilial transfer, some C&R items, and recently, a court case Silvester v. Harris which ruled the 10 day wait unconstititutional for certain classes of people that already possess firearms or have been authorized to possess firearms which was recently decided at the district level. It is being appealed. [You participated in a thread discussing this here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=741279) This of course only applies to the law abiding. Oddly enough criminals and prohibited persons continue to obtain firearms in CA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=245) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=247)