# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/481 "2013-02-14T19:39:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I would say if there is an intruder, a gun gives you a good degree of genuine security. In my case the intruder was in my bedroom when I first saw him. If an intruder is in your bedroom, it’s hard to argue that anything is better than a gun. But did you have any early warning systems such as an alarm or dog? An alarm or barking dog is likely to chase off just about any intruder. How many burglars would instead stay in the house and try to kill the homeowner once an alarm has been set off? I’m glad you’re okay, but it seems like the intruder could have easily killed you if he was able to get all the way into your bedroom before you noticed him. An intruder has the upper hand since he is aware there may be a homeowner. As long as he can silently enter your bedroom, he can kill you no matter if you have a gun or not. Your gun may be giving you a false sense of security if you are not taking steps to be alerted of an intruder. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/482 "2013-02-14T19:46:46Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > OK, I figured you didn’t know what you are talking about. Now I’m sure. Wow, I had no idea that firing a handgun with a little flashlight attached bestowed so much worldly knowledge upon people. Consider me a dunce! Flashlights and boomsticks for all! ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/483 "2013-02-14T19:52:59Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > If an intruder is in your bedroom, it’s hard to argue that anything is better than a gun. But did you have any early warning systems such as an alarm or dog? An alarm or barking dog is likely to chase off just about any intruder. How many burglars would instead stay in the house and try to kill the homeowner once an alarm has been set off? In my case I didn’t have an alarm or a dog. Until about a week before my invasion I really didn’t think I was much of a risk and it was fortunate that I took a gun that used to be unloaded and boxed and kept it loaded beside my bed right before it happened. I did hear the guy coming through my front door, but he was in my bedroom before I could get up. > [@](#): > > I’m glad you’re okay, but it seems like the intruder could have easily killed you if he was able to get all the way into your bedroom before you noticed him. An intruder has the upper hand since he is aware there may be a homeowner. As long as he can silently enter your bedroom, he can kill you no matter if you have a gun or not. Your gun may be giving you a false sense of security if you are not taking steps to be alerted of an intruder. You are right about that, he easily could have killed me, so I was very lucky to have awakened, and very lucky to have my gun nearby. I’m not at all against the idea of people having alarms or dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/484 "2013-02-14T19:54:54Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Wow, I had no idea that firing a handgun with a little flashlight attached bestowed so much worldly knowledge upon people. Consider me a dunce! Flashlights and boomsticks for all! I’m here to help.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/485 "2013-02-14T20:00:08Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > He’s responsible? Hey, responsible gun owners are like law-abiding gun owners. All of them are, right up until the moment they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/486 "2013-02-14T20:04:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Hey, responsible gun owners are like law-abiding gun owners. All of them are, right up until the moment they’re not. I think there is a difference between being law abiding and being responsible. I don’t think gun owners who break basic safety rules are particularly responsible. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/487 "2013-02-14T20:09:48Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > That’s what I’ve been doing to you guys in reverse. Lots of shooters are lax with gun safety. I think gun safety should be taught in public schools along with sex education. On an “abstinence only” basis? Yeah, OK. They aren’t listening anyway. An what of Mr Pastorious, the famous double-amputee who shot his girlfriend? Would a little flashlight on his gun have helped? Most likely, he will be charged and convicted. Doesn’t have a leg to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/488 "2013-02-14T20:13:26Z")
I"m going to go out on a limb here, and say that you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/489 "2013-02-14T20:16:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > An what of Mr Pastorious, the famous double-amputee who shot his girlfriend? Would a little flashlight on his gun have helped? I’ve answered that already. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/490 "2013-02-14T20:34:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > According to the NRA’s latest op-ed… Wayne la Pierre and company are gun nuts. The NRA’s executive board is run by gun nuts, has been for almost 40 years. When you go to the NRA annual meetings, you don’t find yourself surrounded by the Joe sixpack NRA member. The gun nuts are overrepresented and THEY are the ones who pick the executive board. > [@Kable](#): > > I think Wayne can be a bit over the top at times but I just looked up the kidnapping part in Phoenix and it’s legit: The kidnapping statistic is misleading. Most of the people who got kidnapped (criminals and illegal aliens) couldn’t legally own guns. But it wasn’t obvious from the NRA statement. it doens’t do our side any good to twist the truth to try and make our argument. It undermines credibility. > [@steronz](#): > > I suppose I could dodge this by claiming I’m not a psychic, but honestly I think that such a study would be inconclusive, given the incredible small sample size that would necessarily be involved. I also think that people would be safer if they didn’t have a handgun on which to attach a silly little flashlight in the first place. Using numbers least favorable to my argument, guns are fired (not just brandished, fired) in self defense over 16,000 times a year. Accidental gun death injury is about the same. At worst, having a gun is a waash and that assumes that every defensinve use of a firearm involves firing the gun in self defense, it also assumes that none of the accidental fischarges were actually intentional (e.g. suicide attempts). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/491 "2013-02-14T20:35:03Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I’ve answered that already. Say “Goodnight”, Gracie. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/492 "2013-02-14T20:40:52Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Those 3 people would be alive if the shooter had a flashlight on their gun. Would you care to comment on my link then? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/493 "2013-02-14T20:48:27Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player\_embedded&v=WV6Bq8xeQrU#](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WV6Bq8xeQrU#)! > > Warning. Video contains a death. > > This is a video taken during a 2010 Utah police raid. The victim’s name was Todd Blair and the police were executing a no-knock warrant. The warrant was for his ex-roommate who wasn’t in the building. The police shot and killed Blair from 20 feet away because he was holding a golf club, which the officer thought to be a sword. > > Oh. And there was a light mounted to the officer’s firearm so that he could easily distinguish friend from foe. Low light does not seem to have been an issue in that case. I think the cops should have held their fire a bit longer. How about you? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/494 "2013-02-14T20:59:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Using numbers least favorable to my argument, guns are fired (not just brandished, fired) in self defense over 16,000 times a year. Accidental gun death injury is about the same. > > At worst, having a gun is a waash and that assumes that every defensinve use of a firearm involves firing the gun in self defense, it also assumes that none of the accidental fischarges were actually intentional (e.g. suicide attempts). Suicides + accidental discharge + intentional discharge. Suicides count because guns make suicides much more likely to be successful. Fewer guns in homes means fewer successful suicides. Accidental discharge includes true accidents as well as misidentified targets. Intentional discharge includes shooting a family member or guest in the home. Those are what you need to take into account. I understand nobody thinks they’re going to shoot themselves or a family member, or thinks that a family member is going to shoot them, but that’s how the numbers work. Take Population A with guns in the house, compare it to Population B without guns, control for various factors and find out who winds up dead more often. (It’s A). ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/495 "2013-02-14T21:02:14Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Suicides count because guns make suicides much more likely to be successful. Fewer guns in homes means fewer successful suicides. In Australia when guns were banned, more people just hung themselves. > **[Gun laws of Australia | Research](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#Research)** > > In 1981, Richard Harding, after reviewing Australian and other data at that time, said that "whatever arguments might be made for the limitation or regulation of the private ownership of firearms, suicide patterns do not constitute one of them. " He quoted a 1968 international analysis of 20 developed countries "cultural factors appear to affect suicide rates far more than the availability and use of firearms. Thus, suicide rates would not seem to be readily affected by making firearms less a In ... ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/496 "2013-02-14T21:02:25Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Low light does not seem to have been an issue in that case. I think the cops should have held their fire a bit longer. How about you? Well I’m glad we agree. But the cops in that video put themselves into that situation, were well trained, _had the appropriate number of lumens_, and still managed to shoot someone accidently. Compare that to a homeowner who isn’t as well trained as the police and have someone (possibly) breaking into their house in the middle of the night. Your advice is that if they could just increase those lumens a bit, a tragedy could have been avoided. But it didn’t work in the link I submitted, did it? Those lumens didn’t do crap to save Todd Blair’s life. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/497 "2013-02-14T21:11:30Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > In Australia when guns were banned, more people just hung themselves. > > [Gun laws of Australia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#Research) [One of the references in your own cite disagrees:](http://aler.oxfordjournals.org/content/12/2/509) > [@](#): > > We find that the buyback led to a drop in the firearm suicide rates of almost 80%, with no significant effect on non-firearm death rates. [Oh, and another one:](http://jos.sagepub.com/content/46/1/83.abstract) > [@](#): > > gun suicides are continuing to decrease in Queensland, most likely as a function of ongoing gun controls, a decrease accompanied by a lesser increase in other methods of suicide, thereby providing little support for substitution theory; ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/498 "2013-02-14T21:11:42Z")
**elucidator** , your posts always put a little spring in my step. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/499 "2013-02-14T21:15:00Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I mean, in the same way that people who claim that nitrogen filled tires is a safety feature. Because it keeps the pressures more consistent, see, which makes the car more predictable. In the grand scheme of things, though, it’s an insignificant difference. > > So I’m going to treat your suggestion of affixing tiny flashlights to handguns to avoid shooting a relative the same way I’d treat someone who says that people should fill their tires with nitrogen to avoid crashing their 911s on wild canyon runs. It’s not seeing the forest for the trees. Shooting in the dark is a bad idea. I have a flashlight built into the pump on my shotgun (I think the sound of a pump action shotgun is widely recognized as the universal sign for “get the fuck out of my house or tell me who youa re”) but I generally like to just turn on the light in a room if I want to see whats in there. > [@steronz](#): > > [Science!](http://ajl.sagepub.com/content/5/6/502) I’m familiar with that paper and if you get rid of the impact that suicide has on the equation, your argument falls apart. > [@filmore](#): > > One thing wrt home defense–it seems the gun gives the owner a false sense of security to go wandering around the house. The common stories are that a sudden noise woke him up, he grabbed his gun, and went to investigate. This seems incredibly risky. He’s assuming that he’ll have the advantage, but there’s no reason to believe that. It seems prudent to assume that there are multiple armed intruders who heard him wake up and are now hunkered down waiting for him to approach. The home owner should approach the situation that way. Any home defense class will tell you to hole up and stay in one place and cover the doors if there is an intruder. You are much more likely to see them before they see you. This might mean they get away with your laptop but at least you didn’t have to shoot anyone. BTW, I think dogs are superior to alarm systems and guns are superior to golf clubs in case a barking dog doesn’t do the trick. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/500 "2013-02-14T21:17:45Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > In Australia when guns were banned, more people just hung themselves. > > [Gun laws of Australia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#Research) You’d need to see if the drop in gun suicides were replaced by other methods. If gun suicides went down by 10000 but suicides as a whole didn’t go down at all, then you know that all those gun suicides switched to other methods. But if total suicides also go down, then some of those gun suicides were not replaced by other methods. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=26)