# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 256
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5101 "2015-07-14T15:40:20Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Yeah I thought there was a chance you’d react that way. Maybe you’re the one who is paranoid and feels unsafe? Its all they have left. They have lost just about every major legal and political battle and they are keenly aware that they have been shooting themselves in the foot by doing things like trying to ban guns that have bayonet lugs and adjustable stocks. They realize that the supreme court might start applying intermediate scrutiny to all gun laws (which would wipe most of them out or force them to be rewritten). They can’t prove that guns are the scourge of society that they imagine in their heads so they just call gun owners names. Its all they have left. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5102 "2015-07-14T15:47:11Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > And then there are suburbs in every city where pudgy white guys are arming themselves to the teeth in fear that _those people_ who live in those city neighborhoods will attack at any minute. Well, that might be true but if the cost of letting people who really need self defense have access to guns is that a few overweight pasty white guys that would piss their pants before they ever drew a gun get to carry around a gun in their waistband, it doesn’t seem like a bad tradeoff. I would focus on reducing gun ownership among criminals rather than pudgy suburban white guys. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5103 "2015-07-14T15:48:37Z")
BTW, can I say, I am glad that Hentor has come back. Dealing with Elvis has made me appreciate arguing with him. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5104 "2015-07-14T15:48:41Z")
Well, that and all the empirical evidence that you fatuously hand-wave away. But fear is powerful, I know. I don’t blame gun fucks for being pussies. I blame them for how they try to manage their fears. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5105 "2015-07-14T15:52:19Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > False analogy. Studies have failed to show a vaccination-autism link, whereas having a gun has demonstrably enabled people to defend themselves. Ok lets try the following more relevant scenario based on an actual conversion I had a number of years ago Me: You should probably wear your seatbelt while your driving Him: well some guy I knew got into an accident once and was thrown from the car which shortly there after burst into flames if he had been wearing his seatbelt he would have been burned to death as it survived to tell the tale. Me: Well that is a highly unusual circumstance. For the most part wearing a seatbelt is safer. Him: I don’t care what the statistics say I say its safer to go without. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5106 "2015-07-14T15:54:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > BTW, can I say, I am glad that Hentor has come back. Dealing with Elvis has made me appreciate arguing with him. Believe me, there’s no margin in engaging you on this - you cannot reason someone from a position that fear has led them to. I just happened to see, once again, a gun nut advancing the position that they are masters of the fear stick! The hoplophobe argument that you’ve made. You don’t seem to realize what this reveals about yourself. But you and Elv1sLives deserve each other, and you and Bullitt can stay here and oil each other up, you rough customers! I’ll let you stand watch on the wall, protecting us all with your manliness. Just remember that a paunch makes you more visible in silhouette, and pasty skin is highly reflective. God bless you, and keep up with those quick draw skills! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5107 "2015-07-14T17:06:16Z")
Still waiting to hear abouty our personal motivations for not owning a gun, ElvisL1ves. We already know you believe everybody is one bad day from mass murder. Is that why you don’t own one? Is it only not having a gun that keeps you from killing? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5108 "2015-07-14T17:31:56Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Ok lets try the following more relevant scenario based on an actual conversion I had a number of years ago > > Me: You should probably wear your seatbelt while your driving > > Him: well some guy I knew got into an accident once and was thrown from the car which shortly there after burst into flames if he had been wearing his seatbelt he would have been burned to death as it survived to tell the tale. > > Me: Well that is a highly unusual circumstance. For the most part wearing a seatbelt is safer. > > Him: I don’t care what the statistics say I say its safer to go without. Right, this is much better than the anti-vaxxer analogy because we can actually conceive of a scenario where an otherwise survivable accident becomes fatal because of a seat belt. I searched and I couldn’t find a single case of it happening, but I can imagine it. I can imagine possibly being in a low speed collision where by some fluke chance I’m partially mentally incapacitated in a burning car and can’t escape because of a seat belt. Likewise, I can imagine a scenario where I need some life-saving medication but I can’t open the bottle in my degraded state because of the child-proof cap. _In both cases_, my last thoughts would be “fuck these goddamn seat belts/child-proof caps!” But decisions shouldn’t be made by people in their death throes, they should be made by calm, rational people who have access to all the evidence. And the evidence is unambiguous that seat belts and child-proof medicine bottles save lives. So yeah, if I were getting hacked to pieces by a crazy person in my own home, my last thought might be, “Fuck, wish I had a gun!” But that doesn’t mean I’m going to go out and buy a gun, because in the cold light of day I can read the statistics and I know that bringing a gun into my house is a poor decision. Frankly, I’m surprise this argument is being proposed by **Lumpy**. The gun-rights activists are always saying that we shouldn’t create knee-jerk legislation in reaction to traumatic events like Newtown. But now he’s proposing that we all make knee-jerk decisions in reaction to hypothetical traumatic events…??? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5109 "2015-07-14T17:41:29Z")
When all you do is spend time thinking about hypothetical scenarios in which you’re being attacked, you can hardly make decisions in any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5110 "2015-07-14T17:48:56Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > When all you do is spend time thinking about hypothetical scenarios in which you’re being attacked, you can hardly make decisions in any other way. Don’t both sides of the gun debate do that? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5111 "2015-07-14T17:49:23Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > But that doesn’t mean I’m going to go out and buy a gun, because in the cold light of day I can read the statistics and I know that bringing a gun into my house is a poor decision. Serious question here. Did the studies those statistics come from only include households with legally owned guns? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5112 "2015-07-14T17:57:04Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > If guns ever were banned, and some machete-wielding psycho on PCP was kicking down your door, would your last thoughts be of all the people you saved by opposing guns? Does this happen a lot around your neck of the woods? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5113 "2015-07-14T17:57:07Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > Don’t both sides of the gun debate do that? No. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5114 "2015-07-14T18:10:13Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Well, that and all the empirical evidence that you fatuously hand-wave away. > > But fear is powerful, I know. I don’t blame gun fucks for being pussies. I blame them for how they try to manage their fears. And what empirical evidence do you have that banning guns would reduce gun murders? unless there is another study that has come out since the last time you were here, what do you have that would provide sufficient evidence to warrant truncating a constitutional right? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5115 "2015-07-14T18:12:15Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Believe me, there’s no margin in engaging you on this - you cannot reason someone from a position that fear has led them to. I just happened to see, once again, a gun nut advancing the position that they are masters of the fear stick! The hoplophobe argument that you’ve made. > > You don’t seem to realize what this reveals about yourself. > > But you and Elv1sLives deserve each other, and you and Bullitt can stay here and oil each other up, you rough customers! I’ll let you stand watch on the wall, protecting us all with your manliness. Just remember that a paunch makes you more visible in silhouette, and pasty skin is highly reflective. God bless you, and keep up with those quick draw skills! I don’t think either of us is going to convince the other but we can at least try to keep each other honest. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5116 "2015-07-14T18:17:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > When all you do is spend time thinking about hypothetical scenarios in which you’re being attacked, you can hardly make decisions in any other way. These attacks don’t need to occur with high levels of frequency to justify gun ownership. I have freely admitted that I probably don’t need a gun for self defense and I am more of a gun nerd than a gun nut BUT I have been in (or at least near) situations where having a gun made a huge difference and I would not deny someone the ability to defend themselves because of some queasiness about guns in general. Riots don’t happen often but there have been several in my lifetime. I have seen the presence of guns make a huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5117 "2015-07-14T18:20:09Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > Don’t both sides of the gun debate do that? Yes, except the gun rights side is concerned about being attacked by criminals with guns while the gun control side of the debate is concerned about being attacked by law abiding citizens with guns. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5118 "2015-07-14T18:20:16Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Serious question here. Did the studies those statistics come from only include households with legally owned guns? I couldn’t tell you without digging into more weeds than I care to at the moment. I’d kick that one back over to you. What I can do is wildly speculate that A) people who own guns illegally are probably going to be less than likely to self-report to having a gun in the house than people who own guns legally, so if the statistics are skewed by illegal gun ownership then they’re probably skewed _more_ in favor of owning a gun, meaning this isn’t going to help the gun-owners any, and B) if there were studies that controlled for legal/illegal gun\* ownership that showed a net safety benefit for legal gun owners, we’d all have heard about it. \*Gun in this paragraph refers to handgun; as far as I know, there’s no evidence that long guns present a statistically significant health risk. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5119 "2015-07-14T18:21:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And what empirical evidence do you have that banning guns would reduce gun murders? Don’t even need to ban them: [Largest Gun Study Ever: More Guns, More Murder](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/13/2617131/largest-gun-study-guns-murder/) > [@](#): > > The largest study of gun violence in the United States, released Thursday afternoon, confirms a point that should be obvious: widespread American gun ownership is fueling America’s gun violence epidemic. > > The study, by Professor Michael Siegel at Boston University and two coauthors, has been peer-reviewed and is forthcoming in the American Journal of Public Health. Siegel and his colleagues compiled data on firearm homicides from all 50 states from 1981-2010, the longest stretch of time ever studied in this fashion, and set about seeing whether they could find any relationship between changes in gun ownership and murder using guns over time. > > … > > With all this preliminary work in hand, the authors ran a series of regressions to see what effect the overall national decline in firearm ownership from 1981 to 2010 had on gun homicides. The result was staggering: “for each 1 percentage point increase in proportion of household gun ownership,” Siegel et al. found, “firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9″ percent. A one standard deviation change in firearm ownership shifted gun murders by a staggering 12.9 percent. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5120 "2015-07-14T18:35:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > … people who break into your house are armed with knives and baseball bats and breaking in with the specific intent to doing you harm > > There are entire neighorhoods in almost every city in this country where this is a real concern for many people. Yes, but typically those are the very same poor neighborhoods where citizens who are armed are most likely to be blown away in random confrontations, especially, due in part to ethnic biases, with police. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=255) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=257)