# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 257
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5121 "2015-07-14T18:50:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Don’t even need to ban them: > > [Largest Gun Study Ever: More Guns, More Murder](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/13/2617131/largest-gun-study-guns-murder/) Already shoved in his face. Futilely, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5122 "2015-07-14T18:51:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think either of us is going to convince the other but we can at least try to keep each other honest. I would never put myself in the position of being responsible for your honesty. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5123 "2015-07-14T19:21:31Z")
[That gun show security is reeeeely tight](http://www.wokv.com/news/news/national/surveillance-shows-teens-stealing-weapons-orlando-/nmyJt/), ain’t it, y’all? > [@](#): > > Surveillance video obtained by WFTV shows more than a dozen people stealing weapons from a gun show at the Central Florida Fairgrounds in Orange County over the Fourth of July weekend. > > According to Orlando police, nearly 20 guns were taken from one of the gun show booths after the show closed for the day on July 6. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5124 "2015-07-14T19:34:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [That gun show security is reeeeely tight](http://www.wokv.com/news/news/national/surveillance-shows-teens-stealing-weapons-orlando-/nmyJt/), ain’t it, y’all? If only those poor booth owners could have had a gun to defend their wares! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5125 "2015-07-14T19:43:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Already shoved in his face. Futilely, of course. Why don’t you own a gun? Is it because you would kill someone with it? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5126 "2015-07-14T19:44:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [That gun show security is reeeeely tight](http://www.wokv.com/news/news/national/surveillance-shows-teens-stealing-weapons-orlando-/nmyJt/), ain’t it, y’all? Do you ever worry that you might stab somebody in a fit of rage? Do you own any knives? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5127 "2015-07-14T19:58:25Z")
You do know all about uncontrollable urges, don’t you? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5128 "2015-07-14T20:03:24Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I couldn’t tell you without digging into more weeds than I care to at the moment. I’d kick that one back over to you. > > What I can do is wildly speculate that A) people who own guns illegally are probably going to be less than likely to self-report to having a gun in the house than people who own guns legally, so if the statistics are skewed by illegal gun ownership then they’re probably skewed _more_ in favor of owning a gun, meaning this isn’t going to help the gun-owners any, and B) if there were studies that controlled for legal/illegal gun\* ownership that showed a net safety benefit for legal gun owners, we’d all have heard about it. > > \*Gun in this paragraph refers to handgun; as far as I know, there’s no evidence that long guns present a statistically significant health risk. Or it might be self reporting on gun ownership with police reporting on who gets killed. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5129 "2015-07-14T20:19:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Don’t even need to ban them: > > [Largest Gun Study Ever: More Guns, More Murder](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/13/2617131/largest-gun-study-guns-murder/) Can we at least wait for the study to be published before we hold it up as conclusive proof that banning firearms would reduce the murder rate? These studies have a bad habit of equating correlation with causation and counting murders by people who are not allowed to own firearms as if a gun ban would have done anything to prevent that murder. I’d be interested to see how they control for the generally decreasing crime rate during the study period. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5130 "2015-07-14T20:24:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yes, but typically those are the very same poor neighborhoods where citizens who are armed are most likely to be blown away in random confrontations, especially, due in part to ethnic biases, with police. Are you arguing for disarming the police as well now? There are a lot of shitty neighborhoods that are not black. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5131 "2015-07-14T20:36:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I would never put myself in the position of being responsible for your honesty. Are you still butthurt over losing almost every political and legal battle in the last decade? In the last several years do you think more people on this board have shifted towards your position or towards mine? I am not asking whether more people are more in line with your position or mine, I think it is clear that most of the people on this board (if pressed for an opinion) are more in line with you but more of them have shifted towards me than towards you in the several years. I think it is equally clear that more people have shifted away from your position than away from my position. I don’t know many posters that went from being against an AWB to being for it while there seem to be a lot of posters that went from being for an AWB to being ambivalent or against it. This sort of shift in opinion is fairly rare on this board (and even more rare anywhere else on the internet). So, if I am being so dishonest and you are being so honest about everything then how do you explain this? Why are you having so much trouble getting the truth out on this board? How is the gun control side able to bamboozle what is largely a gun control friendly board? Is it possible that you are disconnected from reality and you are vilifying gun rights advocates because you just KNOW you are right and anyone that disagrees with you is immoral? Are you still butthurt over losing every legal and political battle on gun control over the last decade? Perhaps its time to take a different approach to gun control because your current approach is failing badly. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5132 "2015-07-14T20:39:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Can we at least wait for the study to be published before we hold it up as conclusive proof that banning firearms would reduce the murder rate? These studies have a bad habit of equating correlation with causation and counting murders by people who are not allowed to own firearms as if a gun ban would have done anything to prevent that murder. Their methodology is right there in my cite: > [@](#): > > Since we know that violent crime rates overall declined during that period of time, the authors used something called “fixed effect regression” to account for any national trend other than changes in gun ownership. They also employed the largest-ever number of statistical controls for other variables in this kind of gun study: “age, gender, race/ethnicity, urbanization, poverty, unemployment, income, education, income inequality, divorce rate, alcohol use, violent crime rate, nonviolent crime rate, hate crime rate, number of hunting licenses, age-adjusted nonfirearm homicide rate, incarceration rate,and suicide rate” were all accounted for. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5133 "2015-07-15T00:45:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You do know all about uncontrollable urges, don’t you? :rolleyes: Just answer the question. I fucking dare you. Just. Answer. The. Question. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5134 "2015-07-16T05:42:28Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Anything you say. Just please stop being so darn intimidating! Yikes! Oh bother. Pathetic. Eeyore. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5135 "2015-07-16T10:18:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Are you arguing for disarming the police as well now? > > There are a lot of shitty neighborhoods that are not black. No. But I think it’s ridiculous to taser unthreatening citizens who are slow to comply with orders. And the many cops we see who shoot at innocent citizens should be disarmed and dismissed from law enforcement. And yes, some (but not all or even most) bigotry by cops and others is directed against the poor in general rather than blacks specifically. But the poverty rate is about three times higher among blacks than among whites, so poor==black is often an informative approximation. In fact, despite that whites outnumber blacks in America by a huge margin, _ **poor black kids now, for the very first time since records were kept, outnumber poor white kids** _: [“black children make up 4.2 million [of the 20% of U.S. children living in poverty] while white children account for 4.1 million.”](http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2015/07/16/children-poverty/30219249) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5136 "2015-07-16T13:46:10Z")
Why do the gun control advocates on this board always scorn people who choose to carry? Let’s say purely for the sake of argument that gun carriers are motivated by paranoid fear (and I deny it). So what? What skin is it off your nose if they carry? If there was an epidemic of permit holders committing rage or panic shootings, then you’d have a case. All I can see is that your hatred of people who lawfully carry is because they’re getting in the way of the crusade to ban guns. Guns were never more restricted than in the period from 1970 to the mid-1980s, when most states were “May Issue” (in practice meaning “No”), and federal gun regulations were at their peak. Yet that didn’t check the wave of crime and violence during that era. Gun owners with clean records always end up being the low-hanging fruit of gun control- the most infringed and the least likely to show a benefit from gun control. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5137 "2015-07-16T13:57:47Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Why do the gun control advocates on this board always scorn people who choose to carry? Let’s say purely for the sake of argument that gun carriers are motivated by paranoid fear (and I deny it). So what? What skin is it off your nose if they carry? If there was an epidemic of permit holders committing rage or panic shootings, then you’d have a case. Why would it have rise to the level of an epidemic? How many deaths of innocent bystanders is acceptable to you? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5138 "2015-07-16T14:00:53Z")
What skin is it off my nose? You mean what hole is it in my chest, don’t you? The scary thing is that you really don’t get it, and at some point one has to think you _can’t_. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5139 "2015-07-16T14:01:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why would it have rise to the level of an epidemic? How many deaths of innocent bystanders is acceptable to you? The fact is, the crime rate among permit holders is well below that of the general population. And most of those crimes involve carrying where it’s not allowed (school, bar, Fed. building). Hang on, I’ll dig up some cites. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5140 "2015-07-16T14:04:33Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The fact is, the crime rate among permit holders is well below that of the general population. > And most of those crimes involve carrying where it’s not allowed (school, bar, Fed. building). > Hang on, I’ll dig up some cites. Crime rates a slippery things. Let’s not start including any and all crimes here; limit it to crimes involving guns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=256) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=258)