# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 271
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5401 "2015-08-05T16:09:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Assume for argument’s sake that both items are equally dangerous, WTF does design have to do with anything? To bolster his/her argument. Such a ridiculous law would just create a chilling effect on gun ownership, which is the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5402 "2015-08-05T19:29:51Z")
I remember Dave Barry writing that there was one thing that united us all. We ALL think we are above-average drivers. I think something similar happens with gun owners. Now I believe that there ARE responsible gun owners. I used to be one and may be so again one day. The problem is that ALL gun owners think they responsible gun owners, even the ones that use a rifle as cane or scratch their temple with barrel of a handgun. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5403 "2015-08-05T20:29:30Z")
Good point. Half of all gun owners are below average in skills / moral guidance / responsibility. Half of all gun owners finished in the bottom half of their respective gun training classes. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5404 "2015-08-05T21:59:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Making lists is fun! Here’s mine: > > 1. You are fearful. I don’t normally carry a gun. I don’t want to ban anything. Yet, you think I am the one who is fearful? You are hitting C above high C stupid with that assertion. While you are all are busy licking eachother’s assholes and making jokes about knife crime, remember that you are joking about [a large percentage of US murders](http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_hom_vic_by_wea_kni-crime-homicide-victims-weapon-knife) and [thousands of victims](https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls). Note, that more murders are committed with knives than with rifles in the US. So, why aren’t you more concerned about knives than you are about “assault weapons?” Oh, wait…I already know. You are very, very poor at risk assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5405 "2015-08-05T23:08:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Note, that more murders are committed with knives than with rifles in the US. So, why aren’t you more concerned about knives than you are about “assault weapons?” Oh, wait…I already know. You are very, very poor at risk assessment. Did anyone else notice the big bait-and-switch he pulled there? Suddenly, this thread is only about violence done with rifles?? Hey, what are the stats for knives versus _all_ guns, **Scumpup**? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5406 "2015-08-05T23:12:48Z")
If you had two weeks or better in the over/under for next theater shooting, [you lose.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/us/tennessee-theater-shooting/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5407 "2015-08-05T23:50:08Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Note, that more murders are committed with knives than with rifles in the US. So, why aren’t you more concerned about knives than you are about “assault weapons?” Oh, wait…I already know. You are very, very poor at risk assessment. The kerfluffle over “assault weapons” has never been over numbers; it’s over the fact that gun control advocates consider it anathema that citizens can possess (nearly) “military-grade” weapons. Both hard-core abolitionists and advocates of “reasonable” restrictions share this in common, the idea that “military” weapons have no place in civilian society. Look at the things they repeatedly attempt to ban: “armor piercing” bullets, .50 caliber rifles, high-capacity magazines, and any gun with “tacticool” cosmetic features that they’re somehow convinced militarizes a firearm. Many are ok with, or at least acquiescent to, citizens owning second-tier, dumbed-down firearms of limited capacity but nothing you would want to actually go into battle against military forces with. Consider that hardcore Second Amendment proponents consider owning those types of firearms the _ **purpose** _ of the Second Amendment, and you have a pretty irreconcilable difference of philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5408 "2015-08-06T00:03:26Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > If you had two weeks or better in the over/under for next theater shooting, [you lose.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/us/tennessee-theater-shooting/index.html) So what’s the deal with movie theaters? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5409 "2015-08-06T03:38:22Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Alright Esox, okay, you make some good points. But there’s a problem with your argument. Of course one first has to know how to operate guns before they can go bonkers and blow away many innocent victims in a rampage - that is a trite and trivial fact. But are you proposing that all guns be removed from society, such that over time the number of people who know how to handle guns dwindles to near zero? I’d like every firearm on the planet to be melted down and their ingots blasted into space, never to be seen again. But it isn’t my decision to make. I have to live with a whole lot of others of my kind, so I have to make compromises if I want to co-exist with them. Compromise means each side makes concessions to the other. You probably see where this is going. Even after the sickening point-blank slaughter of little kids at Newtown, the NRA dug its heels in and defiantly refused to budge one inch on the horribly inadequate gun laws that allowed it to happen. Ninety percent of the population supported background checks at gunshows but the NRA, in its infinite compassion, refused to concede even that, and had that bill shot down in Congress. The NRA isn’t interested in co-existing with the rest of the population. It fights tooth and nail to impose its will on it. Kind of ironic for the Defenders of Freedom, right? I’m willing to compromise, and the vast majority of gun control advocates is as well. How about you? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5410 "2015-08-06T11:13:16Z")
Yes I am willing to compromise. ---
**Author:** ![withaK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8e7dd6/32.png) [@withaK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/withaK)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5411 "2015-08-06T11:14:55Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So what’s the deal with movie theaters? A lot of victims in an enclosed space and it’s dark. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5412 "2015-08-06T11:29:44Z")
> [@withaK](#): > > A lot of victims in an enclosed space and it’s dark. And they are all seated - not mobile, not surrounding the shooter, and not easy for them to move quickly. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5413 "2015-08-06T12:34:47Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The kerfluffle over “assault weapons” … > > Many are ok with, or at least acquiescent to, citizens owning second-tier, dumbed-down firearms of limited capacity but nothing you would want to actually go into battle against military forces with. Consider that hardcore Second Amendment proponents consider owning those types of firearms the _ **purpose** _ of the Second Amendment, and you have a pretty irreconcilable difference of philosophy. Please clarify. Do we “need” guns to protect us from military forces, e.g. Obama’s Jade Helm advneture or the SWAT Teams coming to vaccinate Granny or take her to the death camps? Or is yours a fear that muggers and home invaders will be armed with military-grade weapons, so you need them too? I admit that “rational-thinking gun nuts” seems like an oxymoron to me, but maybe I’m wrong – help me understand how you think. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5414 "2015-08-06T12:57:17Z")
> [@withaK](#): > > A lot of victims in an enclosed space and it’s dark. And sometimes they are texting their daughters before the movie starts, and need shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5415 "2015-08-06T15:12:27Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > If you had two weeks or better in the over/under for next theater shooting, [you lose.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/us/tennessee-theater-shooting/index.html) Theater shooting? The guy had a _ **pellet gun** _ fer Chrissake! The only shooting was him getting his ass shot dead by police. > [@septimus](#): > > Please clarify. Do we “need” guns to protect us from military forces, e.g. Obama’s Jade Helm advneture or the SWAT Teams coming to vaccinate Granny or take her to the death camps? Or is yours a fear that muggers and home invaders will be armed with military-grade weapons, so you need them too? > > I admit that “rational-thinking gun nuts” seems like an oxymoron to me, but maybe I’m wrong – help me understand how you think. If the civilian ownership of guns was banned by constitutional amendment tomorrow, would we become a dictatorship overnight? No. But considering that **every single human society of which we have record** that reserved weapons to the rulers and their enforcers, and forbade the common people from possessing them, either was or became a dictatorship or caste system, the testament of history is not encouraging on that score. Are we really that confident that somehow we’re the exception? That we’ve somehow achieved a magic social and political formula that means _our_ government can be trusted with an authority that has always been abused in the past? I for one am not so sanguine; in fact, I would assert that we’ve **already** seen the abuse of power that comes with a monopoly on weapons- namely at the hands of civil police forces. In the nineteenth century, as industrialization led to the expansion of big cities, we saw two concurrent developments: the domination of city and state politics by political “machines” and the idea that the masses needed “policing”, not just the upholding of the law but in the sense of the large-scale management of the herd. Riots, especially labor unrest had to be suppressed; the poor especially minorities like blacks had to be “kept in their place”, and organized crime _that hadn’t paid the necessary bribes_ needed to be squelched. In some times and places, the police were little more than the ruling machine’s bully boys, the biggest and best armed gang in town. It’s perhaps no coincidence that local ordinances against carry gained currency at this time, to give the troopers a monopoly on public force. Although things have improved thanks to the vigilance of the fourth estate, even today police tend to see themselves as a privileged class authorized to tell the proles to shut up and do what they’re told. Abuses even against white middle class citizens are still common; quadruply so for poor blacks. And now we’re seeing the expansion of civil police into paramilitary troops. There is absolutely nothing like a monopoly on force that goes to peoples’ heads and authority has a limitless innate tendency to expansion. I don’t think police today are saintly paladins and are unlikely to become so any time soon. So yes, I think an armed populace that could keep the authorities’ troops from getting too big for their britches is a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5416 "2015-08-06T15:24:06Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > But considering that **every single human society of which we have record** that reserved weapons to the rulers and their enforcers, and forbade the common people from possessing them, either was or became a dictatorship or caste system, the testament of history is not encouraging on that score. Uhh, what? I’m not exactly a student of history, but this sounds bogus. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5417 "2015-08-06T15:27:55Z")
Lumpy raises some excellent points. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5418 "2015-08-06T15:28:23Z")
Cliff’s Notes version: We need lots of guns to keep Obama from taking them away. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5419 "2015-08-06T15:32:19Z")
Trite. That simplified version gleans over many excellent points by Lumpy. If there’s one constant throughout history, it is human nature. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5420 "2015-08-06T15:37:50Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Uhh, what? I’m not exactly a student of history, but this sounds bogus. I agree. There are a number of modern societies where gun ownership is not prevalent that have not become oppressive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=270) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=272)