# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 286
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5701 "2015-08-18T00:09:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You’re the guy that wants to ban guns based on cosmetic features and you think you have logic on your side? Pffft. This is a lie. The primary reason I insult you is that I spent a lot of time explaining stats to you, like the 95% confidence interval, odds ratios and partialing out the effects of a third variable. I took time to dig up stats sources. I did this because I thought you were arguing in good faith. You quickly showed me that you are not. What you are is an example of the effects found in [this antivaxxer study](http://m.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-denial-psychology-backfire-effect), which shows that when you give corrective information to people with an entrenched non-fact based opinions, you actually increase their resistance to empirical evidence. Then you do things like lie about my positions. Why don’t you quit being such a cunt? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5702 "2015-08-18T00:19:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I talk about civilian justifiable homicides and you bring up police shootings. :smack: :smack: :eek: So you think all civilian shootings ruled “justified” are “beneficial”? How about Cheney shooting his buddy? No charges were filed, so was that beneficial? How about people who have shot relatives or neighbors ruled as mistaken self-defense. Beneficial? The 6-year old who shot his 4-year old brother and wasn’t charged with any crime? Beneficial? Don’t say “Obviously my ‘beneficial’ claim doesn’t apply to shootings that were NOT beneficial.” In this forum you are the sentences you construct. If you say something extremely stupid, as you did, you retract it, not double-down. ETA: I’ve used extreme examples so that even a dolt like you might get the point. A similar principle often applies even when the dead person was violent or criminal. Is it beneficial to kill a distraught person in preference to taking a 1% risk of a black-eye? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Retract what inane conclusion? [Make a mental note to self: Add **Damuri Ajashi** to the list of blithering SDMB dolts.] ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5703 "2015-08-18T00:28:04Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m tired of looking up all the cites… This by the way is a fucking joke. You haven’t provided ANY cites. Wikipedia is the limits of your capabilities. I’m surprised you were even able to pull off a wiki link. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5704 "2015-08-18T02:23:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And some guns are banned too. Would you like a list? That list of banned cars seem mostly like imports, would you like to discuss how hard it is to buy certain imported guns? > > Guns are subject to more regulation than many people realize. Then why isn’t there an outcry from freedom lovers about banned cars like there is with guns? That’s the question! When texting and driving was banned, we didn’t hear Defenders Of Freedom screaming that Obama wants to take our cars. There isn’t a run on car sales with every new driving restriction in the fear that they’ll only have ten cars to play with instead of twenty. Why do you think that is? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5705 "2015-08-18T03:52:58Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Then why isn’t there an outcry … Just fuck it, man, he has no leg to stand on. He cannot muster a decent argument inbounds, so he is trying to drag you into this diversion. There is nothing there, stop worrying his bait. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5706 "2015-08-19T05:18:00Z")
[**Man Accidentally Shoots Self While Guarding ‘Muslim-Free’ Oktaha Gun Store**](http://www.newson6.com/story/29826547/man-accidentally-shoots-self-while-guarding-muslim-free-oktaha-gun-store) OKTAHA, Oklahoma - The Muskogee County sheriff said a member of the group guarding an Oktaha gun shop accidentally shot himself Tuesday. Sheriff Charles Pearson said the man dropped his gun and a bullet hit him in the arm. The sheriff did not identify the man or offer any other details about what happened. The group of armed citizens and veterans is standing guard outside the Save Yourself Survival and Tactical Gear store after the owners said they received death threats from all over the world for putting up a sign saying Muslims weren’t welcome. “I saw several of those gentlemen out there yesterday,” Pearson said. “The way they were holding their weapons, with the fingers on the triggers, you can tell a couple of these gentlemen have no idea about weapons safety. It’s like the Clampetts have come to town,” Sheriff Pearson told [muskogeenow.com](http://muskogeenow.com). ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5707 "2015-08-19T06:28:18Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Just fuck it, man, he has no leg to stand on. He cannot muster a decent argument inbounds, so he is trying to drag you into this diversion. There is nothing there, stop worrying his bait. I’d like to see freedom lovers try to justify bringing up cars, knives, swimming pools, ladders, as if they can all be equated to guns. But yeah, you’re right, if Damuri is going to play it like a snickering kid in his mom’s basement, there’s no point. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5708 "2015-08-19T12:20:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Sheriff Charles Pearson said the man dropped his gun and a bullet hit him in the arm. The sheriff did not identify the man or offer any other details about what happened. Obviously that guy did not have a modern gun, because as everyone knows, modern handguns won’t discharge when dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5709 "2015-08-19T12:42:50Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > I’d like to see freedom lovers try to justify bringing up cars, knives, swimming pools, ladders, as if they can all be equated to guns. But yeah, you’re right, if Damuri is going to play it like a snickering kid in his mom’s basement, there’s no point. Sadly, I agree. I have to say that I liked your attempt. It was novel and pointed out a hypocrisy that I hadn’t really considered before. I keep trying to teach them about stats, and I have to realize that it is really stupid of me to keep trying. I guess it’s because these are actually very simple concepts that I keep hoping one day one of these idiots will go “Oh, I get it!” In the end, recognizing inconsistent positions or having a moment of clarity regarding stats really could never counter the effects of bowel-shaking fear that [del]black[/del] bad guys are coming for you. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5710 "2015-08-19T14:21:11Z")
I’m still trying to get inside **Damuri Ajashi** ’s mind to see how he thinks. When the six-year old shot his four-year old brother to death that was “beneficial” to society. I’m not putting words in his mouth – I gave him much oppotunity to rephrase his conclusion but he stuck with it. I won’t insult him by making assumptions; I’ll respect that he does say what he means even though it does seem … peculiar. **Damuri** – If the kid had killed his brother with a knife would that still be beneficial? Or is it only gun killings that have some special value to society? And if you can, explain just what that special benefit is. Easing over-population with minimal pain? Celebrating the Second Amendment? Practice in gun handling from a very early age? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5711 "2015-08-19T14:40:06Z")
Was the four year old black? Then he was only going to grow up to be a thug anyway. White? White trash. Beneficial, you see? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5712 "2015-08-19T17:57:28Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Sadly, I agree. I have to say that I liked your attempt. It was novel and pointed out a hypocrisy that I hadn’t really considered before. > > I keep trying to teach them about stats, and I have to realize that it is really stupid of me to keep trying. I guess it’s because these are actually very simple concepts that I keep hoping one day one of these idiots will go “Oh, I get it!” In the end, recognizing inconsistent positions or having a moment of clarity regarding stats really could never counter the effects of bowel-shaking fear that [del]black[/del] bad guys are coming for you. Thanks. I’d add that I think everyone knows that the raw, naked power of a gun is the gun lover’s guilty pleasure, and like any guilty pleasure, they don’t want to admit to it. They invent all kinds of rationalizations for it the way a dieter rationalizes a bowl of ice cream after the salad. Self-defence, family protection, sport, freedom, patriotism, the Second Amendment, I eat what I kill, guns are the same as knives and cars, blah blah blah, are all rationalizations for the visceral pleasure they get from blowing stuff away. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5713 "2015-08-19T18:05:42Z")
[ > [@](#): > > A man guarding a small-town Oklahoma gun range and survivalist shop that declared itself a “Muslim-free” business dropped his weapon and accidentally shot himself. > > Authorities say an unidentified man dropped his gun Tuesday and a bullet struck his arm. He was among armed residents in front of the Save Yourself Survival and Tactical Gear store in Oktaha (ohk-TAH’-hah), about 60 miles southeast of Tulsa. ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b85f510d9ba24490a8ff697afc03c7aa/guard-muslim-free-gun-range-accidentally-shoots-self](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b85f510d9ba24490a8ff697afc03c7aa/guard-muslim-free-gun-range-accidentally-shoots-self))I bet the worst thing for this idiot is that now he knows he’s been guarding the place against himself. Ah, karma… ETA: Doh! Ninja’s by **camille**! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5714 "2015-08-19T18:08:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I bet the worst thing for this idiot is that now he knows he’s been guarding the place against himself. Even worse, he failed. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5715 "2015-08-19T18:11:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Even worse, he failed. haha good point **ElvisL1ves**! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5716 "2015-08-19T18:21:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This is a lie. The primary reason I insult you is that I spent a lot of time explaining stats to you, like the 95% confidence interval, odds ratios and partialing out the effects of a third variable. I took time to dig up stats sources. I did this because I thought you were arguing in good faith. You quickly showed me that you are not. > > What you are is an example of the effects found in [this antivaxxer study](http://m.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-denial-psychology-backfire-effect), which shows that when you give corrective information to people with an entrenched non-fact based opinions, you actually increase their resistance to empirical evidence. > > Then you do things like lie about my positions. Why don’t you quit being such a cunt? Wait. Are you now claiming that you didn’t support an Assault Weapons Ban? I was about to note that you seem particularly immune to information. EVERY study on defensive gun use says that there are a lot of them but apparently they are all flawed for some reason that allows you to completely ignore them. You insult people because you have a weak argument and your position sucks. This why your side of the argument has retreated to the pit. The gun debates in great debates never go the way you hope. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5717 "2015-08-19T18:21:49Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Thanks. I’d add that I think everyone knows that the raw, naked power of a gun is the gun lover’s guilty pleasure, and like any guilty pleasure, they don’t want to admit to it. They invent all kinds of rationalizations for it the way a dieter rationalizes a bowl of ice cream after the salad. Self-defence, family protection, sport, freedom, patriotism, the Second Amendment, I eat what I kill, guns are the same as knives and cars, blah blah blah, are all rationalizations for the visceral pleasure they get from blowing stuff away. I’d contend that there’s something more, or different anyway, at work for these guys, because I like that stuff. Well, not so much the “blowing stuff away” part. But guns are cool and their power is impressive. Shooting them is fun, and I have pride in being able to do it accurately. I’ve never once thought about owning one though, and I’ve never remotely considered practicing a quick draw in order to get the drop on a bad guy. I’m just not especially scared of the world enough. I think it’s the anxiety that gets these crazy gun fucks beyond appreciation of the power and asthetics of guns. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5718 "2015-08-19T18:48:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > :smack: :smack: :eek: > So you think all civilian shootings ruled “justified” are “beneficial”? not all of them, but the vast majority. > [@](#): > > How about Cheney shooting his buddy? No charges were filed, so was that beneficial? I’m pretty sure that falls into the category of hunting accident rather than justifiable homicide. > [@](#): > > How about people who have shot relatives or neighbors ruled as mistaken self-defense. Beneficial? And what percentage of justifiable homicides do you think this represents? really, how often do you think this happens? Because you seem to think that these events happen frequently enough that it invalidates the estimate. Its all within the margin of error isn’t it? > [@](#): > > The 6-year old who shot his 4-year old brother and wasn’t charged with any crime? Beneficial? once again, not justifiable homicide. That’s called an accident. A horrible accident. > [@](#): > > Don’t say “Obviously my ‘beneficial’ claim doesn’t apply to shootings that were NOT beneficial.” In this forum you are the sentences you construct. If you say something extremely stupid, as you did, you retract it, not double-down. OK. Not every justifiable homicide is beneficial, just the overwhelming majority. > [@](#): > > ETA: I’ve used extreme examples so that even a dolt like you might get the point. A similar principle often applies even when the dead person was violent or criminal. Is it beneficial to kill a distraught person in preference to taking a 1% risk of a black-eye? You use extreme examples because they are the only ones that support your argument. For the most part justifiable homicides are how I portray them. > [@](#): > > [Make a mental note to self: Add **Damuri Ajashi** to the list of blithering SDMB dolts.] Says the guy who can’t tell the difference between a police shooting and a civilian shooting despite being reminded twice. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5719 "2015-08-19T18:49:59Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This by the way is a fucking joke. You haven’t provided ANY cites. Wikipedia is the limits of your capabilities. I’m surprised you were even able to pull off a wiki link. > **[Studying Firearm Related Violence](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=725137)** > > After Sandy Hook Obama issued a number of executive orders aimed at studying and curbing gun violence. One of those ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (pdf) to assess the existing research on gun violence and recommend future... We’ve had this discussion a zillion times before. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/5720 "2015-08-19T18:54:21Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Then why isn’t there an outcry from freedom lovers about banned cars like there is with guns? That’s the question! Because the right to own guns is a constitutionally protected right. The constitution is in some respects an agreement between the government and its people and one of the things the government agreed to was to preserve the right to keep and bear arms. Some regulations on that right are reasonable others are simply attempts to infringe on the exercise of the right. > [@](#): > > When texting and driving was banned, we didn’t hear Defenders Of Freedom screaming that Obama wants to take our cars. There isn’t a run on car sales with every new driving restriction in the fear that they’ll only have ten cars to play with instead of twenty. Why do you think that is? These seems inapposite but to try and address your underlying question, its because no one is advocating banning the private ownership of cars. Plenty of people advocate the banning of the private ownership of guns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=285) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=287)