# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/581 "2013-02-17T20:49:58Z")
I asked this maybe a dozen times in other threads and never got an answer. **jtgain** , maybe you can help. We all agree that criminals and mentally ill people shouldn’t have guns. We also know that people enter into those classes in a fashion that is not structured. That is, it is possible that at any particular point in time, someone might experience a mental break, or engage in criminal acts. So, when a person does so, we might be able to prevent them from obtaining a firearm. But without registration, how can we know whether or not they already have one? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/582 "2013-02-17T21:38:45Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Some Valentine’s day love for our resident gun nuts. All these were on 2-14-13. there are probably more, but no one collects them all in one place. Well, **Kable** has not been around to answer this post, but I for one don’t know what this list is supposed to prove. > [@](#): > > Clayton County, Ga. – A man was shot to death during an argument with a woman inside a residence yesterday. No other information was available. Self defense. Shows the system works. > [@](#): > > Cicero, Ill. – A 17-year-old boy on a street was shot multiple times and pronounced dead at the scene at 7:46 p.m. yesterday. Clearly a hunting accident. > [@](#): > > Ramsey, Minn. – A 67-year-old woman and her 65-year-old husband were found dead, each with a gunshot wound to the head, apparently the result of a murder-suicide. The couple’s daughter had asked police to check on the two after receiving an email from her father saying they were being evicted from their rented house and they planned to kill themselves. Regretful, but they probably would have stabbed themselves to death if they didn’t have a gun. Death with dignity. > [@](#): > > Clayton Township, Mich. – A 17-year-old boy was shot and killed by his 64-year-old father when the boy began punching and shoving his mother and sister about 1:15 p.m. Sunday. The boy and his mother had been arguing before the incident escalated. Hearing the fight, the father came out of his bedroom with a handgun and shot his son once in the abdomen. Police have had previous contact with the teen because of his behavior. This hero saved the life of hundreds of people and saved the state thousands of dollars being the the prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner in this case. It’s called responsibility people, this hero was responsible for his own actions (those of the last 17 years). A true patriot. > [@](#): > > Oakland, Calif. – A man was shot to death inside an apartment about 2:30 p.m. yesterday. Witnesses saw two men run from the scene after the shooting. Clearly a hunting accident. > [@](#): > > Council Bluffs, Iowa – A 22-year-old woman and her 19-month-old son were shot and wounded outside their apartment about 5:40 a.m. Tuesday by a 30-year-old man. The woman was struck eight times; the boy was hit in his arm. Police say they know the motive but have not yet released it. The man has been arrested. Hunting accident. Babies can look a lot like a water fowl in pre-dawn light. I almost made this mistake myself once. > [@](#): > > Chesterfield County, S.C. – A 56-year-old man got out of his truck in the parking lot of a county courthouse and sprayed a 21-year-old woman’s car with gunfire. The woman was going to the court to try and prove that he is the father of her 6-month child and to discuss child support. She was hit in the face, chest, and stomach. Her step-father was stuck once. Both are in stable condition. Clearly a misfired weapon. I once put a hole in the side of my house while cleaning one of my guns (I forgot to take the round out of the chamber), this sounds like something similar. I am sure the patriot learned a lesson and will be more careful in the future. > [@](#): > > Detroit, Mich. – Two brothers, ages 16 and 17, shot and wounded by a utility worker they robbed about 9 p.m. on February 7, were charged on Tuesday with armed robbery. The worker – a 59-year-old male with a license to carry a concealed pistol – was working on a light pole with a 59-year-old male colleague when the armed teens threatened and robbed the two workers. At some point, the worker managed to shoot the assailants. Shows the system works. > [@](#): > > Chicago, Ill. – A man in his mid-20s was shot and wounded during a street-robbery about 2:30 p.m. yesterday. The victim was listed in serious-to-critical condition. Show’s the system works, obviously the robber was shot in self-defense. > [@](#): > > Houston, Tex. – A woman leaving a gym was robbed and shot in the parking lot about 9 p.m. yesterday. A car pulled up to her as she walked to her vehicle and an armed man snatched her purse and shot her. She was listed in stable condition with a punctured lung. Hunting accident. > [@](#): > > Philadelphia, Penn. – Earlier this week, a 7-year-old first-grade boy at an elementary school brought a loaded .357 magnum revolver into the cafeteria before school and showed it to some friends. The school police officer took the gun from the boy. A 32-year-old woman, who is not related to the boy, has been arrested in connection with the incident. What? This boy was just exercising his constitutional rights and the jack booted liberal school administrators are trying to curtail them. > [@](#): > > Westminster, Colo. – Two men were having heated words in front of a big-box discount department store when one of the men – 33-years old – displayed a holstered gun. The 33-year-old had been talking loudly a cell phone and using profanity when the other man passed by and objected to his behavior. Upon seeing the gun, the passer by immediately tackled the armed man, who was knocked unconscious when his head hit the ground. The armed man was jailed on charges of felony menacing, unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon and reckless endangerment. Finally, here is a criminal who illegally had a gun (probably stolen from a patriot) that was unable to use his gun in the commission of a crime due to the bravery of a law abiding citizen who left his gun at home. If everyone around had been armed, it would have probably been unnecessary for this gentleman to tackle the criminal… For those of us keeping score, it is clear which side of the argument is winning.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/583 "2013-02-17T21:46:32Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I’m not following how this would help if you didn’t have the registry. If grandpa can sell his gun to a guy in a Target parking lot, what system is in place to ensure that the buyer is allowed to buy it? You can’t just count on grandpa insisting on a background check. If we can’t trust grandpa to do the background check, how can we trust him to send in the transfer form? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I asked this maybe a dozen times in other threads and never got an answer. **jtgain** , maybe you can help. We all agree that criminals and mentally ill people shouldn’t have guns. We also know that people enter into those classes in a fashion that is not structured. That is, it is possible that at any particular point in time, someone might experience a mental break, or engage in criminal acts. > > So, when a person does so, we might be able to prevent them from obtaining a firearm. But without registration, how can we know whether or not they already have one? It’s a good question that has given me pause. If I understand it, take a gun owner like myself who obeys the law and is (reasonably) sane. I own 4 guns (for example). Now, for whatever reason I go off my nut or my finances, morals, family life, or whatever degrades and I start committing crimes or doing things that would make people question my sanity. Your proposal would allow the authorities to instantly say: “Well, jtgain owns 4 guns with serial numbers XXX, YYY, ZZZ, and QQQ, with these makes, models and calibers. Let’s be on the lookout for him.” Under the current system, they don’t know if I own zero guns or five hundred guns. It’s a fair question, and let me think on it. My initial reaction is to oppose it on the grounds that I shouldn’t be held responsible for what I might do. But I’m not a gun nut reactionary, so lemme digest it for a bit… ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/584 "2013-02-17T22:54:20Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > If we can’t trust grandpa to do the background check, how can we trust him to send in the transfer form? It’s not a matter of trust. It would be a crime not to. By requiring both parties to send in the transfer form, it is immediately evident if one party doesn’t. If grandpa doesn’t send in the form but Joe does, grandpa gets a call from the authorities. If neither party sends in the form, then the registry doesn’t know about the transfer. However, the last registered owner is risking big fines if the gun later shows up under a different owner–either from a crime or a new transfer. Grandpa is not going to want to risk that and will likely register that he transferred the gun. Even if the criminal he sold it to doesn’t register, at least the authorities know precisely when and how the gun got into the criminal system. This is sometimes done with car sales. When the current owner sells the car, they can send in a form to the state indicating they no longer own it. This way if the new owner doesn’t register and it shows up in a crime, they have documented that they sold it to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/585 "2013-02-17T23:04:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Now, for whatever reason I go off my nut or my finances, morals, family life, or whatever degrades and I start committing crimes or doing things that would make people question my sanity. Your proposal would allow the authorities to instantly say: “Well, jtgain owns 4 guns with serial numbers XXX, YYY, ZZZ, and QQQ, with these makes, models and calibers. Let’s be on the lookout for him.” Under the current system, they don’t know if I own zero guns or five hundred guns. A registration database wouldn’t make you a suspect in this case. But once you are convicted of a felony, it would be used to take your guns away. Today, if you acquired your guns from private sale, there is no record of you owning any guns. There is no way for the authorities to know that you should have your existing guns removed after you are convicted. But with a registration database that includes private sales, the authorities would know that you have X guns and can make sure they are confiscated. It would also help when they came to arrest you. They would have an idea of what sort of arsenal you have and would be able to plan accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/586 "2013-02-18T01:56:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m sure someone can come up with an equivalent list of lots of people who were saved by guns on that same day. > > Right? Obviously if defensive gun use always made the news you could swamp those numbers. Taking even the lowest of the low estimates of 55,000 DGU per year… > **[Defensive gun use | Estimates of frequency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use#Estimates_of_frequency)** > > Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary wildly, depending on the study's definition of a defensive gun use, survey design, country, population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Low-end estimates for the United States are in the range of 55,000 to 80,000 incidents per year, while high end estimates reach 4.7 million per year. A May 2014 Harvard Injury Control Research Center survey about firearms and suicide committed by 150 firearms researchers found that only 8% of... …divided by 365 leads to would lead to over 150 crimes thwarted per day. Please check my math Euphonious, I don’t want to make a mistake. Also, I was at a USPSA shooting match and there were over 100 shooters shooting over 100 rounds each, mostly out of semi-auto handguns. Not one injury or incident and everyone had a lot of fun. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/587 "2013-02-18T01:58:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > _Pssst_. That’s not the only reason we register guns. Right. Gun-grabbers want to know exactly who has what when they come to confiscate them later down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/588 "2013-02-18T01:59:35Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > For those of us keeping score, it is clear which side of the argument is winning. How nice of you to say.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/589 "2013-02-18T02:05:02Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Obviously if defensive gun use always made the news you could swamp those numbers. Taking even the lowest of the low estimates of 55,000 DGU per year… > > [Defensive gun use - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use#Estimates_of_frequency) > > …divided by 365 leads to would lead to over 150 crimes thwarted per day. Please check my math Euphonious, I don’t want to make a mistake. You know, from your link there, it says > [@](#): > > Different authors and studies employ different criteria for what constitutes a defensive gun use, which at times leads to controversy in comparing statistical results. Have fun with that math. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/590 "2013-02-18T02:09:39Z")
That’s why I bent over backwards for the gun-grabbers and used the lowest estimate for DGU. So I realize the real number may be a lot higher. Based on the lowest number I used, was my math correct? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/591 "2013-02-18T02:28:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have no idea. In retrospect, the claim sounds ridiculous considering that the Tuscon shooter had CCW. I picked it up somewhere and internalized it. OK, I know where you are coming from now and will take that into consideration when I see posts from you in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/592 "2013-02-18T02:39:05Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > That’s why I bent over backwards for the gun-grabbers and used the lowest estimate for DGU. So I realize the real number may be a lot higher. Based on the lowest number I used, was my math correct? Is that survey one of the ones that defines a DGU as locking your bedroom door when you hear somebody breaking in in the middle of the night, yelling “Get out of here, I have a gun”, then waiting for the bad guys to rob you and leave? If so, I think 55,000 may be a bit high. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/593 "2013-02-18T02:39:27Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Right. Gun-grabbers want to know exactly who has what when they come to confiscate them later down the road. We can just seize the membership records of the NRA for a good start. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/594 "2013-02-18T02:48:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > We can just seize the membership records of the NRA for a good start. I duuno; I wouldn’t want to be the guy to go take them away. I guess I could arrive in a tank, but I’d have to get out to do the actual confiscation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/595 "2013-02-18T02:53:07Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I duuno; I wouldn’t want to be the guy to go take them away. > I guess I could arrive in a tank, but I’d have to get out to do the actual confiscation. > 🙂 One word: Stuxnet ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/596 "2013-02-18T03:03:15Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > One word: Stuxnet You lost me, there. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/597 "2013-02-18T03:13:10Z")
[Stuxnet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet) > [@](#): > > Stuxnet is a computer worm discovered in June 2010 that is believed to have been created by the United States and Israel to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/598 "2013-02-18T03:23:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [Stuxnet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet) Yes, but what does it have to do with confiscation and/or tanks? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/599 "2013-02-18T03:25:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Yes, but what does it have to do with confiscation and/or tanks? The NRA membership files are stored on a computer. Computers can be compromised by governments, as demonstrated by Stuxnet. As for the tanks, I will leave you to explain them. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/600 "2013-02-18T03:35:52Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Is that survey one of the ones that defines a DGU as locking your bedroom door when you hear somebody breaking in in the middle of the night, yelling “Get out of here, I have a gun”, then waiting for the bad guys to rob you and leave? If so, I think 55,000 may be a bit high. Or is it one of the ones that counts DGU as “I saw a guy and he was prolly gonna do a crime, but I flashed mah gun at him and he runned away.” Or counts the stories that folks mail in to gun lovers digest that read like Penthouse Forum letters: “Dear Gun Lovers Digest: i never thought this would happen to me, but one day I was out minding my own business, with my trusty gun, and…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=31)