# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 308
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6141 "2015-10-14T15:15:46Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Oh come on, I’m pro-control and there is no information on the circumstances of the shooting in that news link to tell us it was “to end an argument”. It might as well have been a robbery gone wrong (and thus by definition NOT a lawful responsible gun owner) – unless there’s more info somewhere thatI don’t know about. Perhaps not a responsible gun owner and he “might” have been a lawful gun owner but he was probably breaking some gun laws (a whole hell of a lot of good those laws were). A lawful gun owner can still commit crimes, the question is whether he was in lawful possession of the gun at the time of the crime. If he was not a prohibited person, then as long as he obtained the gun in a lawful way (18 year olds cannot purchase handguns from an FFL), then he was a lawful gun owner. As long as he was carrying his gun openly and was not carrying his gun on Arizona University property, he was not breaking any gun laws. It seems pretty likely that he was breaking a few gun laws. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6142 "2015-10-14T15:32:33Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Today, President Obama is meeting privately with the families of the victims of the shooting at Umpqua Community College. Naturally, then, a group of armed protesters has gathered to oppose the visit. > > Via [TPM](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-roseburg-shooting-armed-protesters) > Using a zero instead of an O in Obama’s name is how you know they’re serious people. And a _private_ meeting with the victims is “politicizing” the shooting and being “polarizing”, but _showing up with fucking guns_ to protest is somehow not politicizing or polarizing. > > Read the article and take a look at the photos for all the “go back to Kenya” stuff. Kenya? I see a sign that seems to say go back to Washington DC. Maybe they removed the photo of the sign that said go back to Kenya. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6143 "2015-10-14T15:36:38Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > In my experience the person making shouty appeals to authority is the one who doesn’t have an actual argument. And if you’re referring to the Heller decision, you might want to actually read it sometime. It supports **ElvisL1ves** view. Wait. WHAT!?!?!! In what way does Heller support Elvis? Heller intentionally ignores the part that Elvis seems to be referring to and specifically stands for the notion that there is an individual right to bear arms that has nothing to do with being part of a militia. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6144 "2015-10-14T15:59:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 :eek: :smack: This is your criterion? > > Does the U.S.'s fanatical obsession with guns “yield 100% positive results, with few or no drawbacks”? No. The gun rights side has never said that guns don’t have a downside. The gun control side seems to have a problem saying that guns have an upside. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6145 "2015-10-14T16:00:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except the Indian “genocide” wasn’t planned, it just was the unhappy issue of the natives not having resistance to diseases. It was bound to happen. Didn’t they pass out disease ridden blankets and shit like that specifically to spread those diseases? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6146 "2015-10-14T16:47:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [It’s not like the British didn’t consider it](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-native-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox). Thing is no-one’s arguing that in their heyday the British weren’t absolutely dreadful oppressors and destroyers. But there seems to be some very convenient forgetfulness of the USA’s track record as well. “A war of extermination will continue to be waged between the two races until the Indian race becomes extinct.” California Governor Peter H. Burnett, 1851 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6147 "2015-10-14T17:09:27Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I understand and appreciate your position. I don’t think we really have a disagreement. Or I’m the one being obtuse. 🙂 BTW Gary, the last sentence means that perhaps I am the one being obtuse, not saying you are. It was meant to be conciliatory, but I see it could be read a different way. Mea culpa. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6148 "2015-10-14T17:54:15Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I love the way to claim the countries listed have a gun problem you cite 3 examples, of which two were back in 2011, in Belgium and Norway…i.e. completely different countries. Clever stuff!. You can’t even count. I listed " a mass shooting in Norway? 69-75 dead, mostly kids, and 241 wounded? 7 January 2015, Paris ? 13 December 2011, Liège- 7 and 125 injured? Günter Hermann Ewen/ Tranchita, Rosario/Éric Borel/ Friedrich Heinz Leibacher/Tvrdon, Matthew/Tristan van der Vlis/Derrick Bird/Sabine Radmache" that’s almost a dozen. But you didnt say the USA had more, you said _“And all countries without gun problems…”_ They have Gun Problems. Just not as many. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6149 "2015-10-14T21:58:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You can’t even count. I listed " a mass shooting in Norway? 69-75 dead, mostly kids, and 241 wounded? 7 January 2015, Paris ? 13 December 2011, Liège- 7 and 125 injured? > > Günter Hermann Ewen/ Tranchita, Rosario/Éric Borel/ Friedrich Heinz Leibacher/Tvrdon, Matthew/Tristan van der Vlis/Derrick Bird/Sabine Radmache" that’s almost a dozen. > > But you didnt say the USA had more, you said _“And all countries without gun problems…”_ > > They have Gun Problems. Just not as many. I have seriously been sitting with my fingers crossed hoping you’d come back with this half arsed “ok my first 3 examples were full of shit, but what about the others”. Thank you. It was an interesting list you posted there. Not least because in your haste to find killings in Europe you couldn’t even keep names in the same format, or even because you had to add yet other countries in (Switzerland, Wales) It was the fact you couldn’t be arsed to see what you were putting forward as evidence. So just what do you argue from Matthew Tvrdon’s case? A welshman who used a vehicle to kill 1 person and injure 17 others? You reckon this demonstrates a gun problem in Wales? Please, do elaborate Or how about Rosario Tranchita, and the people he killed…in 1925? Yes, clearly a century old homicide indicates a gun problem in Italy. Gunter Ewen? Killed 4 people in Germany 1999. Éric Borel - Killed his family in France, in 1995 Do you get the fucking trend here? You are so fucking stupid you couldn’t even be arsed to vaguely check the incidents you tried to claim show a current gun problem in other countries you dumb fuck. I look forward to you sifting through the bones trying to argue that a family homicide here and a madman there show some sort of gun problem comparable to the US. You dumb fucking fuck. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6150 "2015-10-14T22:24:28Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I have seriously been sitting with my fingers crossed hoping you’d come back with this half arsed “ok my first 3 examples were full of shit, but what about the others”. Thank you. > > It was an interesting list you posted there. Not least because in your haste to find killings in Europe you couldn’t even keep names in the same format, or even because you had to add yet other countries in (Switzerland, Wales) It was the fact you couldn’t be arsed to see what you were putting forward as evidence. > > Gunter Ewen? Killed 4 people in Germany 1999. > Éric Borel - Killed his family in France, in 1995 > > … gun problem comparable to the US. . Isn’t Switzerland & Wales part of Europe? Wales is even park of the UK, last I checked. Ewen killed 5, not 4. Borel? Killed more than the four in his family. wiki: \*Éric Borel (11 December 1978 – 24 September 1995) was a French high-school student and spree killer who, at the age of 16, murdered his family in Solliès-Pont in the arrondissement of Toulon on September 23, 1995, and afterwards walked several miles to the village of Cuers where he continued his rampage the next day, shooting dead twelve other people and injuring four more, while pacing through the streets for half an hour. \* Killed 15, wounded 4. Not to mention himself. _Wasn’t that a “gun problem”?_ But you ignore the rest. And, you say “first 3 examples were full of shit”- they include mass shooting in Norway- 69-75 dead, mostly kids, and 241 wounded. \* Wasn’t that a “gun problem”?\* 7 January 2015, Paris . \*Wasn’t that a “gun problem”? \* 13 December 2011, Liège- 7 and 125 injured. _Wasn’t that a “gun problem”?_ The issue is you said “_"And all countries without gun problems…_” Not- countries with \*less \*gun problems. Countries with **NO** gun problems. A lie. But it seems the only way you can make your points is thru profanity and personal insults. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6151 "2015-10-15T05:22:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The issue is you said “_"And all countries without gun problems…_” Not- countries with \*less \*gun problems. Countries with **NO** gun problems. A lie. > > But it seems the only way you can make your points is thru profanity and personal insults. That’s because I love profanity, and you are most certainly deserving of insults. So just out of interest what point did you think you were making with a man who killed someone with a van? Or a shooting from 1925? We’ll come back to your whole nonsensical “more than zero people have been shot so they must have a gun problem” in a minute, but I really would like you to squirm a bit on those ones first. You idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6152 "2015-10-15T10:10:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [It’s not like the British didn’t consider it](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-native-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox). > > (bolding mine) > > While there is no definitive evidence that the Indians were given blankets riddled with smallpox, there was indeed a smallpox outbreak amongst the local Indians shortly thereafter. > > But I guess, like school shootings, it was just “bound to happen”. Yes, yes, Amherst (about whom I would certainly have said “who? 😕” five minutes ago) was undeniably a hateful individual. On the other hand, a century later the enlightened United States, who made it an article of faith – to justify breaking with the hated evil British – that all men were created equal, set about systematically and as a matter of official Government policy forcing the natives off every acre of land they lived on and massacred those who wouldn’t go, so now who’s the cunt? \<– not addressed at any poster here. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6153 "2015-10-15T10:19:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No. The gun rights side has never said that guns don’t have a downside. The gun control side seems to have a problem saying that guns have an upside. No, the gun control side says that the upside is FAR outweighed by the downside. Consider: [People are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6154 "2015-10-15T11:15:54Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, the gun control side says that the upside is FAR outweighed by the downside. Consider: > > [People are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/) _ **Never** _ turn your back on a toddler. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6155 "2015-10-15T11:48:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, the gun control side says that the upside is FAR outweighed by the downside. Consider: > > [People are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/) 43 toddler shootings in one year is not very many. Toddlers die in buckets, so therefore don’t worry about guns. Plus, 31 of those were self-inflicted, so we can ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6156 "2015-10-15T13:02:19Z")
It seemed like a [good idea at the time:](http://huff.to/1LuRgKO) > [@](#): > > When a Missouri man burning trash in a field accidentally set fire to the brush, he tried to extinguish the flames by driving over them… in a van loaded with ammunition. > “Well, you can see how that turned out,” the Clay County Sheriff’s Office wrote… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6157 "2015-10-15T17:34:12Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > So just out of interest what point did you think you were making with a man who killed someone with a van? Or a shooting from 1925? Yeah, so? How about your "Éric Borel - Killed his family in France, in 1995? "Killed more than the four in his family. wiki: Éric Borel (11 December 1978 – 24 September 1995) was a French high-school student and spree killer who, at the age of 16, murdered his family in Solliès-Pont in the arrondissement of Toulon on September 23, 1995, and afterwards walked several miles to the village of Cuers where he continued his rampage the next day, shooting dead twelve other people and injuring four more, while pacing through the streets for half an hour. Killed 15, wounded 4. Not to mention himself. Wasn’t that a “gun problem”? Or your idea that Switzerland & Wales arent in Europe. And that Wales isnt part of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6158 "2015-10-15T17:41:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, the gun control side says that the upside is FAR outweighed by the downside. Consider: > > [People are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/) So far in 2015, 43 cases of a toddler getting ahold of a gun and shooting either someone else or themselves. It would be impossible to know, but how may cases are there, I wonder, of toddlers getting ahold of a gun and _missing_? Or toddlers getting ahold of a gun and luckily being stopped _before_ they shoot themselves or others? I would have to think the numbers must be up there. This is one reason why ownership of guns should come with some kind of responsibility, like mandatory training and/or mandatory safe storage requirements. We should not just think that handguns are fine to be scattered about homes, owned by people with no bloody common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6159 "2015-10-15T18:26:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, so? So you have tried to use a van driver to demonstrate a gun problem. Seriously, as comedy goes that’s fucking golden. By the way, the reason I’m point out you’re trying to add Brussels, Norway and Switzerland is because here’s the statement you’re trying(failing) to rebut. “there’s approximately 322 million people in the US. That’s equivalent to German, France, the UK, Italy and Spain. All countries with equivalent freedom of speech, press and religion. And all countries without gun problems.” So to demonstrate those countries have a gun problem, you start referencing incidents in Switzerland, Brussels and Norway. That’s not quite as amusing as the van thing, but it’s pretty good. But then you also have to go for the whole “there have been shootings in those countries, therefore they have gun problems too” shtick. Just fucking perfect logic there, sport. I take it you also believe that any person who’s ever had a beer is an alcoholic? In short, you remain a complete flump. Thank you for playing. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6160 "2015-10-16T05:47:07Z")
Here you go. Two examples of good guys with guns. Each of them eliminated a dangerous troublemaker. [http://bigstory.ap.org/article/12ea1d7d065a40e9bff01322fe722259/2-men-argue-shoot-each-other-nc-street-both-die](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/12ea1d7d065a40e9bff01322fe722259/2-men-argue-shoot-each-other-nc-street-both-die) > [@](#): > > CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) — Authorities say two men arguing on a street in North Carolina shot and killed each other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=307) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=309)