# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 311
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6201 "2015-10-20T20:41:36Z")
Wolverines! ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6202 "2015-10-20T20:52:41Z")
I’ll bite. The upside is the possibility that a crime or murder may occasionally be prevented. I can’t deny that that’s a possibility. I think that most attempts to do so will be unwise and unsuccessful, but it’s not impossible. This upside needs to be weighted against the downside of accidental or mistaken shootings; people getting angry and shooting someone when things would have gone differently if they hadn’t been armed; kids playing with guns; guns being stolen by people who have criminal intent; etc. I think that in a heavily armed society, the overall number of deaths would be increased, rather than decreased. This seems intuitively obvious although I’ll admit that I don’t have any stats handy to prove it. Note that I said heavily _armed_. People are going to post responses about societies with heavy firearm ownership that don’t seem to have problems. But, as far as I know, people in those societies aren’t walking around _armed_ all day, they have their hunting equipment or whatever at home. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6203 "2015-10-21T01:18:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How about a summary rather than merely a link to a video? Story from July: young man in CT mounts a pistol and firing mechanism to an RC quad-copter, demonstrates it in controlled operation (fires off 5 shots). Inevitable, but still troubling. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6204 "2015-10-21T01:42:08Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Story from July: young man in CT mounts a pistol and firing mechanism to an RC quad-copter, demonstrates it in controlled operation (fires off 5 shots). Inevitable, but still troubling. I cringe thinking about what could happen with something like this. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6205 "2015-10-21T03:42:41Z")
4-year-old killed in road rage shooting > **[Judge lambasts man charged with 4-year-old's shooting](https://www.koat.com/article/judge-lambasts-man-charged-with-4-year-old-s-shooting/5067313)** > > The man who police said confessed to killing a 4-year-old girl during a road rage incident earlier this week went before a judge Thursday afternoon. > [@](#): > > A 4-year-old girl has died after she was shot during a road rage incident Tuesday afternoon on Interstate 40. > … > Police do not believe the family knew the shooter. They’re calling it a road rage case. Too bad she didn’t have a gun to defend herself. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6206 "2015-10-21T06:24:27Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > 4-year-old killed in road rage shooting > [Judge lambasts man charged with 4-year-old's shooting](http://www.koat.com/news/heavy-police-presence-closes-i40-west-at-unser/35947470) > > Too bad she didn’t have a gun to defend herself. Should she have had a Concealed Carry permit? Would one of the Gun Nuts **pleeeeze** tell me what the big deal is about Concealed Carry? Don’t make me start a IMHO thread and bother the sane people. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6207 "2015-10-21T06:26:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Stupidest gun control idea ever. But good luck with that. So, what So, what I hear you saying here is, “_I have this device that is specifically designed for death and destruction, and if someone else takes it, whether from my dresser, from the gunrack of my truck that they busted into, by way of loan, or through a neighborly purchase, howsoever that weapon gets used when out of my hands is not my **responsibility** _.” I guess we just have a different kind of idea what “responsible” means. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6208 "2015-10-21T10:25:16Z")
There’s more of an upside to private gun ownership to guns than the possibility of self-protection, which is a dubious proposition. They’re used for killing vermin, like feral cats and dogs. Sports like hunting and skeet are perfectly reasonable. The idea that rural and suburban whites need guns to protect themselves from a government that’s run by white people is batshit, though. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6209 "2015-10-21T14:30:41Z")
Right, but you don’t need to carry 24/7 to kill vermin and hunt, and certainly not in bars, movie theaters, schools, etc. I’m pretty sure that you also don’t need easily concealable weapons to do those things. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6210 "2015-10-21T16:00:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Should she have had a Concealed Carry permit? > > Would one of the Gun Nuts **pleeeeze** tell me what the big deal is about Concealed Carry? Don’t make me start a IMHO thread and bother the sane people. Other than your previous reference to a thread about concealed carry (which I haven’t read), I don’t know what big deal you mean. Please elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6211 "2015-10-21T16:19:46Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > So, what So, what I hear you saying here is, “_I have this device that is specifically designed for death and destruction, and if someone else takes it, whether from my dresser, from the gunrack of my truck that they busted into, by way of loan, or through a neighborly purchase, howsoever that weapon gets used when out of my hands is not my **responsibility** _.” > > I guess we just have a different kind of idea what “responsible” means. So, what So, what I hear you saying here is, “_I have this [DEL]device that is specifically designed for death and destruction[/DEL] multi-ton machine, and if someone else takes it, whether from my[DEL] dresser[/DEL] driveway, from [DEL]the gunrack of my truck[/DEL] garage that they busted into, by way of loan, or through a neighborly purchase, howsoever that [DEL]weapon[/DEL] vehicle gets used when out of my hands is not my **responsibility** _.” How far do you want to carry “responsibility” for objects that have passed through someone’s hands? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6212 "2015-10-21T16:21:36Z")
If I were carrying, I think I’d want the gun concealed. If I confronted a carrying opponent I’d want to know he was carrying. I do (vaguely) understand that concealed carry permits may be required for purposes other than actual concealment. So what are the issues? Do gun haters oppose concealed carry? Do gun lovers object when they’re not allowed to conceal? Is there some underlying issue that suggests a motive for the peculiar thread about concealed carry in the Mundane forum? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6213 "2015-10-21T16:33:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What you don’t realize is, there is going to be new gun regulation of some kind. You can either participate and influence the outcome, or you can continue your unrealistic fantasy that nothing is going to change. That is very shortsighted, because you risk getting new regulations that are stronger than if you made reasonable proposals of your own, and work with the growing constituency that is demanding tighter background checks. The status quo is not an option. Sure, things will change but if the last few decades are any indication, we will see relaxation of gun control. Sure there will come a time when some tighter restrictions will be implemented, but the pendulum doesn’t keep swinging in one direction. Every time you let someone like Dianne Feinstein lead the charge on gun control, you are delaying meaningful gun control by years if not decades or generations. I have said many, many times that I support licensing and registration. I don’t think you stand in the way of good ideas because it will encourage people to try to push through bad ideas. But, the gun rights side is pretty fed up with the low information, high hysteria folks on the gun control side. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6214 "2015-10-21T16:43:34Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > 4-year-old killed in road rage shooting > [Judge lambasts man charged with 4-year-old's shooting](http://www.koat.com/news/heavy-police-presence-closes-i40-west-at-unser/35947470) > > Too bad she didn’t have a gun to defend herself. Meh, it’s just another toddler killed by a gun. These things are so common now, it’s a wonder they even make the news. It’s just the price of FREEDOM! Why do you hate FREEDOM? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6215 "2015-10-21T17:03:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … > But, the gun rights side is pretty fed up with the low information, high hysteria folks on the gun control side. And the other side is fed up with people using ad hominem attacks with words like “high hysteria”. It really doesn’t add anything to your credibility. Neither does the “low information” meme. Not knowing all of the technical details of firearms does not disqualify one from engaging in this discussion any more than a poor understanding of internal combustion engines disqualifies one from discussing traffic laws. It’s simply a handy talking point to derail real conversation. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6216 "2015-10-21T17:08:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have said many, many times that I support licensing and registration. You have \*said \*that many times, yes. But you gleefully oppose bills that would actually do any of that. Someday you may quit lying, to yourself as well as others. But probably not. > [@](#): > > But, the gun rights side is pretty fed up with the low information, high hysteria folks on the gun control side. Tell us more about “exposure therapy”. :rolleyes: Are you fed up enough to take the sort of action you claim you need guns for? Or is that just more cowardly bluster? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6217 "2015-10-21T18:04:31Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > And the other side is fed up with people using ad hominem attacks with words like “high hysteria”. It really doesn’t add anything to your credibility. Because ‘gun fetishist’, ‘penis compensating’, and ‘terrified to go anywhere unarmed’ makes your side sound so much more reasonable. > [@davidm](#): > > Neither does the “low information” meme. Not knowing all of the technical details of firearms does not disqualify one from engaging in this discussion any more than a poor understanding of internal combustion engines disqualifies one from discussing traffic laws. It’s simply a handy talking point to derail real conversation. The spokespeople leading the charges may not need to know how the sear interacts with the trigger and striker, but stating that semiautomatic weapons should be restricted because they’re capable of firing hundreds of rounds a second completely undermines any valid point they may have been able to make. It’s like arguing the need for speed bumps in school zones because people are driving 300mph through them. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6218 "2015-10-21T18:20:27Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Because ‘gun fetishist’, ‘penis compensating’, and ‘terrified to go anywhere unarmed’ makes your side sound so much more reasonable Are they factually false, though? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6219 "2015-10-21T18:21:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Are they factually false, though? And that’s why no one takes you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6220 "2015-10-21T18:35:20Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’ll bite. The upside is the possibility that a crime or murder may occasionally be prevented. I can’t deny that that’s a possibility. I think that most attempts to do so will be unwise and unsuccessful, but it’s not impossible. So how often do you think guns are used defensively every year? BTW, See LA Riots. > [@](#): > > This upside needs to be weighted against the downside of accidental or mistaken shootings; people getting angry and shooting someone when things would have gone differently if they hadn’t been armed; kids playing with guns; guns being stolen by people who have criminal intent; etc. Sure, the costs and benefits should be weighed. But like I said it seems like one side of the debate focuses on the costs to the exclusion of the benefits. > [@](#): > > I think that in a heavily armed society, the overall number of deaths would be increased, rather than decreased. This seems intuitively obvious although I’ll admit that I don’t have any stats handy to prove it. I think your intuitions might depend a lot on which side of the gun debate you are on. I don’t know what the exact numbers are but: “According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with “undetermined intent”[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.[1][6]” -Wikipedia So which of those deaths do you think would be avoided without the legal private ownership of guns? Clearly the accidental deaths could be avoided. No gun = no accident. Our suicide rate is average for wealthy industrialized nations despite having more guns per capita than most third world nations, so I don’t know how many suicides you can lay at the feet of legal access to guns. A large majority of gun murders are committed by people who are not allowed to own a gun: The majority of gun murders are committed by felons. A significant number of the remainder are committed by minors (many of them in youth gangs) A lot of them are committed by people who have been convicted of domestic violence or who have restraining orders against them. The number of gun murders committed by legal gun owners is much smaller than the 30,000 number that people like to throw around when arguing for banning the legal private ownership of guns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=310) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=312)