# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 313
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6241 "2015-10-22T07:15:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Responsible, law-abiding gun owner loses his temper, [shoots four-year-old in the head.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/21/us/child-road-rage-death/) The fact that he shot her is irrelevant. If he didn’t have a gun, he would have stabbed the little girl from his moving vehicle, or smothered her with a pillow, or crushed her head with a cuckoo clock, because killers kill, period. The gun is just a red herring. In fact, he could have beat her to death with a red herring, so what’s the big deal with guns? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6242 "2015-10-22T10:35:12Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I have medical insurance. I do not _want_ to fall and break my ankle. > I have dental insurance. I do not _want_ to have a root canal. > I have car insurance. I do not _want_ some bozo to run a red light and hit me. > I have homeowners insurance. I do not _want_ to come home to find a tree fallen into my living room. > I conceal carry. I really, _really_, do not want to ever need it. Insurance doesn’t have the potential to kill you - or your child - or someone else’s child - accidentally. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6243 "2015-10-22T11:16:09Z")
Thanks, Obama! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6244 "2015-10-22T11:45:06Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Thanks, Obama! Sure, it’s a longshot, but if, after his presidency, he ever happens to hold a door open for me, I’m totally stealing that line. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6245 "2015-10-22T12:52:52Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I conceal carry. I really, _really_, do not want to ever need it. Do also really, really want not to ever have something happen by accident, to lose it or have it taken from you, to get somebody hurt you didn’t intend to? Do you want to \*deter \*the “bad guys”, or simply preen about telling yourself you’re a “good guy” anyway? > [@](#): > > The only fantasies here are your delusions of adequacy. Thanks for another example of the penile-compensation stuff, but we really didn’t need any more. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6246 "2015-10-22T13:36:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A large majority of gun murders are committed by people who are not allowed to own a gun: > The majority of gun murders are committed by felons. > A significant number of the remainder are committed by minors (many of them in youth gangs) > A lot of them are committed by people who have been convicted of domestic violence or who have restraining orders against them. …so it looks like we have a thug problem, not a gun problem. Maybe if we give them more free stuff… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6247 "2015-10-22T13:41:40Z")
[http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/22/four-year-old-girl-killed-in-road-rage-shooting-on-new-mexico-freeway/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/22/four-year-old-girl-killed-in-road-rage-shooting-on-new-mexico-freeway/) I take it from the absense of any charges related to illegal possession of a firearm that the guy who killed the four year old girl due to road rage was a perfectly legal gun owner, up until he wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6248 "2015-10-22T13:48:58Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > [http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/22/four-year-old-girl-killed-in-road-rage-shooting-on-new-mexico-freeway/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/22/four-year-old-girl-killed-in-road-rage-shooting-on-new-mexico-freeway/) > > I take it from the absense of any charges related to illegal possession of a firearm that the guy who killed the four year old girl due to road rage was a perfectly legal gun owner, up until he wasn’t. But you can bet there are a lot of people here with their fingers crossed that he turns out to be a criminal, or an illegal immigrant… or a MUSLIM! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6249 "2015-10-22T13:52:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But you can bet there are a lot of people here with their fingers crossed that he turns out to be a criminal, or an illegal immigrant… or a MUSLIM! It is a bind for the gun nuts - they need to increase their declining numbers, but, well, what do they do about people named Torrez? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6250 "2015-10-22T14:21:51Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > And the other side is fed up with people using ad hominem attacks with words like “high hysteria”. It really doesn’t add anything to your credibility. YOUR side is fed up with ad hominem attacks? After all the shit that people say about gun owners on this thread, you think that this is over the line or inappropriate in some way? I think it is a pretty good description of some of the behavior we see from the gun control side. Are you under the impression that there isn’t a lot of hysteria about guns? And this hysteria drives really stupid ideas about gun policy to the forefront? > [@](#): > > Neither does the “low information” meme. Not knowing all of the technical details of firearms does not disqualify one from engaging in this discussion any more than a poor understanding of internal combustion engines disqualifies one from discussing traffic laws. It’s simply a handy talking point to derail real conversation. Low information doesn’t disqualify you from having an opinion. But when the attitude is “I don’t know and I don’t care to know, gun are dangerous and we have to get rid of the guns” then your opinion about guns (and I don’t mean you personally) should be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6251 "2015-10-22T14:33:04Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > We had Toomey and Manchin lead the last try (the one after Newtown), and that went real well. No! No they didn’t. The post Sandy hook gun debate was championed by Dianne Feinstein and her push for an assault weapons ban. The Manchin Toomey bill was the dying gasp of the gun control sider of the debate. > [@](#): > > So I’m calling bullshit on this. And even if it were true, it would be all about the gun lovers getting their fee-fee’s all hurt, and that being more important to them than, you know, _saving lives._ > > I’ve heard this “if only libruls would talk more nicely to conservatives and be more willing to compromise, then we’d work things out” baloney for decades. But do the people saying that ever get upset when Carson and Cruz call the Dems Nazis and jackbooted thugs? Fuck, no. Apparently only conservatives have tender feelings that need to be treated gently. WTF are you talking about. My post had nothing to do with being nice. I’m not bashing Dianne Feinstein because I think she was mean (and I don’t generally disagree with Feinstein on anything other than guns). I’m bashing her because she is so ignorant about guns and gun policy that she thinks an assault weapons ban is an effective means of gun control, by any measure; and she STILL thinks she should be leading the charge on gun control. She had one chance to do something and she chose something so stupid and ignorant that no one is going to take the gun control side seriously for long time. I don’t know if licensing and registration would have passed or not but at least it was immune to attacks on the grounds that is just a fucking retarded idea. Anything that the gun control side proposed was going to be opposed by the gun rights side at least make the gun rights side oppose something that makes sense and can arguably make a difference in gun violence. instead, the gun control side decided it wanted to ban guns based on cosmetic and ergonomic differences. Do you know how stupid the gun control side of the debate looked when it went all-in on the assault weapons ban? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6252 "2015-10-22T14:50:30Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I agree. I try to avoid such rhetoric, except possibly the last one. I’ve known people who refuse to go where they can’t carry, and at least for those few, it _is_ because they’re afraid, but they’re an exception. Although I will admit that I find it hard to understand why anyone would want to be constantly armed. > > So they have some details wrong. The point is that they want to ban weapons that can fire numerous rounds in succession. Understand their obvious intent, correct them on the details, and carry on. But some people won’t even engage with people who don’t have every detail right. That’s not constructive, but it is useful for shutting down conversation. If someone wants to install a speed bump because they think that cars are driving 300 mph, then that is a level of ignorance that makes further conversation difficult. If you way, “you mean 30 mph, right?” and they say “so the fuck what, they’re still moving as a speed that can kill people, we need speed bumps” The argument was that these guns were ESPECIALLY dangerous because they were pretty much like machine guns; if I correct you and say, they fire one bullet every time you pull the trigger just like revolvers, doesn’t that fatally undermine that aspect of your argument? > [@](#): > > It’s often used when it’s not even relevant. For an example see **Damuri Ajashi’s** comment about “low information, high hysteria folks”. It wasn’t even in response to some wrong information. It was nothing but an ad hominem talking point. Of course its relevant. When the gun control side of the debate is being led by people who don’t know enough about guns to know the difference between a machine gun and a semi-automatic rifle, it is relevant. If the global warming debate had scientists and meteorologists on one side and people who didn’t know the difference between Celsius and Fahrenheit on the other side, why wouldn’t that be relevant? Its one thing if my old college classmate doesn’t understand enough about guns to engage in meaningful debate about guns to have a conversation but knows enough about gun violence to think that something should be done. Its another thing if the people leading the gun control side of the debate doesn’t know shit about guns. Its one thing if there is a general concern about the effects of legal gun ownership on violence in America. Its another thing when people get hysterical about mass shootings that account for maybe 1% of gun deaths in America that were all committed by mentally ill people using different types of firearms and the reaction is to ban one type of firearm. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6253 "2015-10-22T14:55:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No! No they didn’t. The post Sandy hook gun debate was championed by Dianne Feinstein and her push for an assault weapons ban. The Manchin Toomey bill was the dying gasp of the gun control sider of the debate. So when are you dropping the lie about \*supporting \*registration and background checks? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its one thing if there is a general concern about the effects of legal gun ownership on violence in America. Its another thing when people get hysterical about mass shootings that account for maybe 1% of gun deaths in America that were all committed by mentally ill people using different types of firearms and the reaction is to ban one type of firearm. Tell us more about “hoplophobia” :rolleyes: A mentally healthy person \*values \*human life. You do not. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6254 "2015-10-22T14:56:50Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Actually, it even works on a kind of meta level. What are we currently discussing? Not guns - debating tactics. > > And how can we not? It’s either that or engage them on their level. But we still end up discussing something other than guns. What they do is clever and insidious. We need to learn how to turn it around on them. You’re not losing the debate because you are using the wrong tactics, you are losing the debate because you are simply wrong. Lack of information is leading you to the wrong conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6255 "2015-10-22T15:34:16Z")
You’ve just confirmed his point, you know. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6256 "2015-10-22T15:37:08Z")
First you have to establish that I’m losing the debate before you can go around pretending to explain why that is so. But guess what? This is not the Great Debates forum, this is the pit, and the topic is “Stupid Gun News of the day”, not gun control. So we shouldn’t even be debating. There are plenty of gun control debate threads, take it to one of them or start a new one if you wish. If you’re bothered by the existence of this thread, ignore it, or maybe start a “Stupid gun control news of the day” thread or something similar where you can post stupid gun control news stories. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6257 "2015-10-22T15:46:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not bashing Dianne Feinstein because I think she was mean (and I don’t generally disagree with Feinstein on anything other than guns). I’m bashing her because she is so ignorant about guns and gun policy that she thinks an assault weapons ban is an effective means of gun control, by any measure; And have the gun lovers ever said, “you know, you’re well-intentioned, but wrong - here’s what _would_ work”? > [@](#): > > She had one chance to do something And why did she have just one chance? Because the gun lovers didn’t really want her, or anyone else favoring gun control measures, to have _any_ chance. They were looking for any excuse to end the debate. That’s why she got only one chance. So it’s all _her_ fault. And somehow that killed Manchin-Toomey too. Because reasons. > [@](#): > > Anything that the gun control side proposed was going to be opposed by the gun rights side at least make the gun rights side oppose something that makes sense and can arguably make a difference in gun violence. Well, there are two possible approaches, from my perspective. We can go for measures that aren’t likely to do much good, but should at least help around the edges, and seem like there should be no rational grounds for even the gunlovingest gun lover for opposing them. Or we can go for measures that might make a real dent, but would have half the gun owners in America crying “Fascism!” What usually happens, of course, is that we go for the former, but get the latter reaction. Now, if you’ve got any ideas for measures that would make a real dent in gun deaths, but wouldn’t give the gun lovers fits, I’m all ears, and I’m sure millions of other Americans would love to hear ideas like this too. You gun lovers are the experts about guns, so surely you can come up with better ideas than what Sen. Feinstein proposes. If you can’t, then please don’t criticize her proposals. Floor’s yours. I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6258 "2015-10-22T17:02:27Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > So, what So, what I hear you saying here is, “_I have this device that is specifically designed for death and destruction, and if someone else takes it, whether from my dresser, from the gunrack of my truck that they busted into, by way of loan, or through a neighborly purchase, howsoever that weapon gets used when out of my hands is not my **responsibility** _.” > > I guess we just have a different kind of idea what “responsible” means. I will explain where this silly analogy falls down. This thread is focused on gun violence in America. In America, it is actually possible to get by without having a car, pickup or other type of motor vehicle. I have done it, myself. But living in Amelia without a car is a serious pain in the ass. One effectively becomes either a second-class citizen (or dependent on someone else) when they do not have a car. The vehicle is _essential_ to American life. The gun, not so much. I have never owned a gun, myself, and it has revel felt to me as though not owning or having one has placed me at any kind of a disadvantage. Ever. And as far as I can see, there are millions of other Americans like me who feel no personal lack in not having a gun or guns. So I see your argument as an attempt to _elevate_ the firearm to the same level of essential utility as the motor vehicle. You want everyone armed, so that disputes can end properly, as they ought, with a bullet in the belly of the loser. And we will be polite, courteous and disinclined to argue, because we will know that arguments will end in bloodshed. Yeah, no, that is just a fucked up notion. That is not the society we should aspire to. I reiterate, guns make people stupid, this thread, and you, demonstrate that fact quite effectively. Cars are bad enough at suppressing our intelligence without going and adding lots of guns into the mix. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6259 "2015-10-22T17:21:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You’re not losing the debate because you are using the wrong tactics, you are losing the debate because you are simply wrong. . This is the Pit, there is no debate here, just screaming and name-calling. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6260 "2015-10-22T18:14:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This is the Pit, there is no debate here, just screaming and name-calling. You are a fucking bloody asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=312) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=314)