# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 331
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6601 "2015-12-15T18:12:08Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Not exactly on topic, but I think most subscribers to this thread will be interested. > > [Want to Make Buying Guns Hard? Make It as Tough as Getting an Abortion](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/04/want-to-make-buying-guns-hard-make-it-as-tough-as-getting-an-abortion.html) > > It’s simple: the Constitution says your right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but it doesn’t say anything about buying them. Of course you have a right to buy them, but the buying process can be regulated. > > It’s also settled law that you have a right to have an abortion, but again, the process of obtaining one has been severely restricted in many states. > > So let’s make it fair: make the process of buying a gun similar to the process of obtaining an abortion. You have to be evaluated by a doctor. You have to watch a movie of bad things that happen when you own a gun. You have to wait several days. Maybe a nice anal probe — it may not be medically necessary in most cases, but neither is a mandatory transvaginal ultrasound medically necessary for most women who want an abortion. And how do you feel about all those bullshit restrictions on abortion? If you had the political power to prevent those bullshit restrictions, would you? If NARAL had the political power to prevent any of those laws and someone said “hey lets have some common sense regulations on abortions so that doctors have admitting privileges in a nearby hospital in case something goes horribly wrong and how about we improve the quality of abortion clinics by requiring them to have hospital quality surgical theaters” At some point you can throw up so many roadblocks that you have made the right meaningless. And the gun control folks throw up just as many meaningless roadblocks for the sake of fucking with gun owners as the pro-life folks throw at pro-choice folks just to fuck with abortion rights. FURTHERMORE: At the state level there are in fact many places that impose onerous burdens on gun ownership (forget a three day waiting period, it can take up to a year to get a gun in places like NYC). At the federal level that are far more restrictions on gun rights than there are on abortion rights. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6602 "2015-12-15T19:04:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’ll admit I don’t know shit about guns, but are you saying that these guns, even as semi-automatics available for retail sale, have no advantage in a combat situation over your typical deer rifle? Can’t fire any faster? Can’t fire more bullets before reloading? Can’t blow bigger holes? Semiautomatics all fire at the same speed. Shots between reloads is controlled by the size of the magazine. AR-15s typically make pretty small holes. The diameter of the bullet is about .223 inches. So only slightly larger diameter than a 22lr (but with a LOT more gunpowder behind it). > [@](#): > > I’m pretty damned sure that these guns are considerably more high-powered, by these measures, than the rifles we fired at targets at my summer camp nearly 50 years ago. I’m going to guess that you fired 22 short rounds at summer camp. These are at about the bottom of the scale in terms of firepower. The 22 short round is about as powerful as a good airgun. A Honda Accord is a high powered car compared to a Mitsubishi Mirage, but can you really call it a high powered car? > [@](#): > > And I also remember the debate over whether Lee Oswald could have fired all three shots at Kennedy and Connally, because the minimum time between shots with his gun was something like 2.8 seconds. I bet the AR-15 and AK-47 can be fired much more rapidly than that. A gun’s fire rate is typically dictated by its “action” (the method by which a firearm loads ammunition into the chamber). The ones I am familiar with (in ascending order of speed of loading a round of ammunition): I suppose we can start with muzzle loading. The fire rate on these is pretty low. Next is breech loading which means you open the breech, fire the gun, open the breech, put in another round, fire the gun, rinse repeat. The fire rate on these is also pretty low. (this is probably the most common method of loading for guns at camp). Next is break action, you open the gun and the spent cartridges pop out so you only have to manually load new cartridges (a double barreled shotgun is likely to have this kind of action). Next is bolt action (this is the slowest action here you don’t have to physically have to handle a bullet between rounds) where you load a bunch of pullets into the gun and every time you work the bolt handle, you discard the spent case and load a new one. Lee Harvey Oswald had this kind of rifle and it doesn’t take anywhere near 2.8 seconds to work a bolt action if you’re used to it. But it is still significantly slower than semi-automatic action. Next is lever action (these are pretty rare and expensive these days, the only need I have ever seen for lever action is in kid’s guns and collectors). Still pretty slow but a lot faster than bolt action guns. Next is pump action. Available in pretty much any log gun type but mostly found in shotguns. The universal sign for “get the fuck out of my house” is the sound of a pump action shotgun racking a round. Next are revolvers where all you have to do is pull the trigger and the action of pulling the trigger mechanically rotates the cylinder to ready the next round. Next is semiautomatic where all you have to do is pull the trigger and the gun uses part of the kinetic energy from the bullet to load the next round. The fire rate of revolvers is about the same as the fire rate of semi-automatic but revolvers usually require a little more energy to pull the trigger so it might slow you down a bit because of that. Next is automatic. These are machine guns where you can fire multiple rounds with a single trigger pull. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6603 "2015-12-15T19:11:48Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Don’t wet yourself; high power is taken as more or less anything more powerful than a carbine. A rifle, in other words. Any deer rifle qualifies. It is illegal to hunt deer with an AR-15 in Virginia because the round is not powerful enough. Virginia requires at least .23 with at least 350 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. .223 is considered sufficient to kill or incapacitate a human but its not really high powered by rifle standards. I don’t think anyone who has rifles thinks of .223 rounds as high powered. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6604 "2015-12-15T19:13:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > OK, so AK-47s and AR-15s have a lot of company in what I would consider the ‘high-powered rifle’ category. Gotcha. > > They’re high-powered rifles, and they’re designed for people to hunt other people with. They surely have plenty of company there as well. Other than rimfire rifles, what exactly falls into the category of low or normal powered rifle? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6605 "2015-12-15T19:14:40Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Finally, a solution for those cold winter days where you just can’t drag yourself out to shop for a gun in person… The [Gun TV](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/02/gun-tv-home-shopping-channel) home shopping channel. Sounds like a gun porn channel. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6606 "2015-12-15T19:23:40Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Examples, please! How do gun control folks marginalize gun owners as a class? So you’ve never heard people conflate gun owners with murderers? “Gun owners tend to frame this as a dispute between law-abiding citizens and insane criminal madmen whose actions cannot reasonably be predicted. Gun control advocates frame it as a conflict between people who do and don’t own guns–and you guys are doing all the fucking mass murders!” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6607 "2015-12-16T12:04:02Z")
Gun safety instructor [accidentally shoots pastor during class.](http://huff.to/1NSNRqs) ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6608 "2015-12-16T16:26:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So you’ve never heard people conflate gun owners with murderers? > > “Gun owners tend to frame this as a dispute between law-abiding citizens and insane criminal madmen whose actions cannot reasonably be predicted. Gun control advocates frame it as a conflict between people who do and don’t own guns–and you guys are doing all the fucking mass murders!” Where’s that quote from? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6609 "2015-12-16T16:35:52Z")
gun-nut, gun nut, gun fetishist, gun-stroker. Search this board for any of those terms. Also search this board for gun + penis. This is absolutely not the place to pretend that the anti side of the argument doesn’t routinely insult and marginalize the pro side. Before any of y’all have a gotchagasm, I am in no way stating that the pro side never indulges in the same type of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6610 "2015-12-16T18:44:43Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > gun-nut, gun nut, gun fetishist, gun-stroker. Search this board for any of those terms. Also search this board for gun + penis. This is absolutely not the place to pretend that the anti side of the argument doesn’t routinely insult and marginalize the pro side. Before any of y’all have a gotchagasm, I am in no way stating that the pro side never indulges in the same type of behavior. From what I’ve seen on these boards, when pro-gun control people make fun of anti-gun control people, it’s because they’ve tried rational arguments but have hit a brick wall of willfull ignorance and disingenuous arguments, whereas the anti-gun control people start from the position that pro-gun control people are maliciously plotting to take away their guns, or are weak, cowardly people who are afraid to defend themselves. In response to **DA** ’s strawman (which I assume is not actually a direct quote), I’d say that gun control people view this as a dispute between reasonable people, some of whom own guns and some of whom do not, who want to institute measures that have been proven to reduce gun violence, and people who irrationally cling to wild west fantasies and believe that facts and statistics somehow don’t apply to them. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6611 "2015-12-16T20:56:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Gun safety instructor [accidentally shoots pastor during class.](http://huff.to/1NSNRqs) Another guy who’s not as safe with guns as he thinks he is. Or as I call it, the Dunning-Luger Effect. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6612 "2015-12-17T04:59:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Semiautomatics all fire at the same speed. > > Next is lever action (these are pretty rare and expensive these days, the only need I have ever seen for lever action is in kid’s guns and collectors). Still pretty slow but a lot faster than bolt action guns. Lever actions are far from rare or expensive. A lever action .30-30 was for many years, and probably still is, one of the most common deer hunting rifles. A Marlin 336C can be had new at any of the chain stores for under $600. Many other brands, models, and calibers exist. Lever actions are fast handling and easy to carry. I own a Marlin 1895G Guide Gun (.45-70) myself; ostensibly my camp gun when in bear country, but really because I love chambering those finger-sized rounds and throwing 405-grain projectiles downrange. I also have a Henry .22 lever action that’s all kinds of fun, and around $300 new if I recall. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6613 "2015-12-17T05:19:44Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > Another guy who’s not as safe with guns as he thinks he is. > > Or as I call it, the Dunning-Luger Effect. You should probably copyright that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6614 "2015-12-17T09:51:26Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > Another guy who’s not as safe with guns as he thinks he is. > > Or as I call it, the Dunning-Luger Effect. 😃 > [@eschereal](#): > > You should probably copyright that. Google search shows hits on two other message boards, first last January. Either we’ve discovered **Trion** ’s alternate personae or the term has been invented independently. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6615 "2015-12-17T15:04:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Google search shows hits on two other message boards, first last January. Either we’ve discovered **Trion** ’s alternate personae or the term has been invented independently. Nope, not me. Someday I’ll come up with something original. Someday… ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6616 "2015-12-31T23:20:15Z")
[27 shots fired at a family member.](http://www.ktnv.com/news/off-duty-police-officer-accidentally-shoots-relative-in-north-las-vegas) Ruled accidental. How in the fuck is 27 shots an accident? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6617 "2015-12-31T23:51:21Z")
Maybe he meant to shoot at a different family member? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6618 "2016-01-01T01:09:44Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > [27 shots fired at a family member.](http://www.ktnv.com/news/off-duty-police-officer-accidentally-shoots-relative-in-north-las-vegas) Ruled accidental. > > How in the fuck is 27 shots an accident? An off duty officer and her husband fired a total of 27 shots. It did not say what kind of guns they were using. Did they each have 15 round magazines? Or did one or both of them pause to reload? Or I guess they could have had multiple guns and blazed away in two-fisted John Woo style. You’d think that at some point they would have had a second to think that maybe the “intruder” was the other person who _lived in the fucking house_. Anyway, they managed to hit their relative just in the leg, and her injury is not considered life threatening. Good shootin! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6619 "2016-01-03T16:43:53Z")
[This young woman](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/step-daughter-florida-policeman-accidentally-shot-mom-article-1.2482522) was shot and killed by her own mother in her own home when she returned from a vacation early. It’s a genuine tragedy. And I figure charging the mother with anything is redundant at this point: having to live with having killed her own daughter will undoubtedly be worse than anything the state can do to her. But even in your own home, unless you live alone, it’s a bad idea to shoot before you know what’s there. Has it never happened to you that you wake up, hearing a noise somewhere else in the house, and investigate, ‘knowing’ that your spouse or SO was in bed beside you when you woke, only to find out it wasn’t true? And they’re the noise, but if you shot first, they’d be dead. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6620 "2016-01-03T21:42:12Z")
In both the last two stories, no charges were laid because the shootings were…_accidental_.😕 WTF? How is deliberately shooting at someone, even if it isn’t who you think it is, an accidental shooting? Go ahead, America, be as stupid as you want with your guns. Ain’t nothin’ gonna happen to ya, haw haw. Except, of course, if you’re stupid enough to shoot yourself: > [@](#): > > [South Florida man dies after accidentally shooting himself while showing relative how to clean gun during video chat.](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/south-florida-man-accidentally-shoots-video-chat-article-1.2474959) > > A South Florida man died after he accidentally shot himself while demonstrating the correct way to clean a gun during a video chat with a relative, authorities say. Who knew that the correct way to clean a gun includes shooting yourself? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=330) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=332)