# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 347
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6921 "2016-04-08T17:59:08Z")
Again with the “nothing can be done, it’s just too hard” shit, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6922 "2016-04-08T19:30:43Z")
**Lumpy** , let me get this straight. You’re condemning a convicted felon for having a gun, but you’re defending the system that allowed him to get it and will continue to allow other convicted felons to easily get guns, which you will likewise condemn. Is that about right? > [@Lumpy](#): > > (1.)This almost certainly wasn’t committed by someone from a middle-class background with no priors suddenly succumbing to a random fit of rage. Gun crime is NOT randomly distributed throughout the population. What difference does that make to the woman who got shot? Is it acceptable or excusable because a criminal from the lower class shot her and not an insurance salesman? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6923 "2016-04-08T19:40:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its not exactly clear what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that banning guns is pointless because it won’t stop criminals from getting guns, or are you saying that the legal possession of guns by law abiding citizens makes guns really easy for criminals to get? What do you not understand about supply and demand? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6924 "2016-04-08T19:55:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So what are you proposing that would have prevented these criminals from getting their hands on guns? > > The fact of the matter is that most gun crimes are committed by people who cannot legally buy guns anyway so having a legal method of buying guns does nothing to stop them (at least for a generation or two) First, require registration as a condition of sale; then make the registered owner responsible for how the gun is used. If they loan it to someone else, they better know that the borrower is trustworthy. If it is given as a gift, the registration should be transferred, so that the original owner can be freed of responsibility – if it is resold, again, transfer registration. If it is stolen, well, the owner fucked up and may be unable to fully escape being at least partially responsible for how it is used. Most guns start out in the legal market; having more control over that will reduce the black market. It will, obviously, not solve gun violence: there are other indirect causes that need to be addressed; but it will make gun owners more careful. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6925 "2016-04-09T03:35:57Z")
If only we had a way to track where these guns used in crimes were purchased, we could trace them back to gun shops that allow large scale straw purchases. I’m thinking a law like this would be ideal from the police viewpoint, responsible gun owners, and congress critters. If only we had a law like that? _(or funding to implement that law!)_ ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6926 "2016-04-09T13:01:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Again with the “nothing can be done, it’s just too hard” shit, huh? It’s already against the law, no new useless laws required. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6927 "2016-04-09T15:27:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Again with the “nothing can be done, it’s just too hard” shit, huh? I’m asking how exactly do you propose to keep guns “out of the wrong hands”, short of banning them? And what do you propose that wouldn’t amount to making the misuse of guns illegaler? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6928 "2016-04-09T17:01:18Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > First, require registration as a condition of sale; then make the registered owner responsible for how the gun is used. If they loan it to someone else, they better know that the borrower is trustworthy. If it is given as a gift, the registration should be transferred, so that the original owner can be freed of responsibility – if it is resold, again, transfer registration. If it is stolen, well, the owner fucked up and may be unable to fully escape being at least partially responsible for how it is used. > > Most guns start out in the legal market; having more control over that will reduce the black market. It will, obviously, not solve gun violence: there are other indirect causes that need to be addressed; but it will make gun owners more careful. Agreed. Why do people fail to comprehend that every gun starts out as legally and responsibly owned? Addressing the situations where legal and responsible ownership ends should be simple. Gun owners (unless they commit the crime) should not share responsibility for the crime - but they do demonstrate irresponsible gun ownership if it was loaned, stolen or illegally transferred. In that case, they should lose the ability to purchase any other gun for some period. In extreme cases, the right to own any guns should end. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6929 "2016-04-09T22:59:33Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > First, require registration as a condition of sale; then make the registered owner responsible for how the gun is used. If they loan it to someone else, they better know that the borrower is trustworthy. If it is given as a gift, the registration should be transferred, so that the original owner can be freed of responsibility – if it is resold, again, transfer registration. If it is stolen, well, the owner fucked up and may be unable to fully escape being at least partially responsible for how it is used. > > Most guns start out in the legal market; having more control over that will reduce the black market. It will, obviously, not solve gun violence: there are other indirect causes that need to be addressed; but it will make gun owners more careful. > [@smithsb](#): > > If only we had a way to track where these guns used in crimes were purchased, we could trace them back to gun shops that allow large scale straw purchases. I’m thinking a law like this would be ideal from the police viewpoint, responsible gun owners, and congress critters. If only we had a law like that? Must you insist on banning guns completely? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6930 "2016-04-10T09:29:39Z")
This probably belongs in the Positive Gun News thread. America, with our god-given 2nd Amendment, does not suffer criminals lying down. Wasn’t there a bad defensive pass-interference by Smith in 2009 that the refs ignored? > [@](#): > > Former New Orleans Saints defensive end Will Smith was shot to death in New Orleans’s Lower Garden District on Saturday night, following a traffic collision … > > A police report says Smith’s Mercedes G63 SUV was rear-ended by a Hummer H2 while driving with his wife. The driver of the Hummer and Smith “exchanged words at which time the driver of the Hummer produced a handgun” and shot Smith “multiple times and his 34-year-old wife twice in the right leg.” In a gun-crazed country, the innocent wife would have been killed also, but in God’s Great America, the American patriot showed restraint – Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6931 "2016-04-10T09:37:14Z")
DGU - one death. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6932 "2016-04-10T15:40:35Z")
As Lumpy will no doubt pop in to say, the shooter was probably a convicted felon with an illegal gun. Therefore, it has no bearing on the gun debate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6933 "2016-04-10T15:43:21Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > As Lumpy will no doubt pop in to say, the shooter was probably a convicted felon with an illegal gun. Therefore, it has no bearing on the gun debate. Is that how gun stats are collected and passed on now? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6934 "2016-04-10T17:02:36Z")
Do you really imagine that you can get rid of guns? Seriously? Oh I’m sure you envision a decades-long process of “weaning” America off guns; but how well did that work for alcohol, heroin and cocaine? Do you really think a perpetual “War On Guns” could ever be a success? Or that the very effort wouldn’t have drawbacks? I don’t fear getting rid of guns, because that will never happen. What I do fear is _banning_ guns- all the drawbacks of guns and none of the benefits. There’s a difference between solving a problem and beating a problem with a stick. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6935 "2016-04-10T17:20:48Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Do you really think a perpetual “War On Guns” could ever be a success? Just look at the entire damn rest of the world for your answer. > [@](#): > > Or that the very effort wouldn’t have drawbacks? Like what, that gun owners would suddenly stop being “law-abiding citizens” and form a militia that would kill enough cops to prevent any legal restrictions from being enforced? Is that it? > [@](#): > > What I do fear is _banning_ guns- all the drawbacks of guns and none of the benefits. Then you can stop the strawmanning and deal with fears of reality, not of your fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6936 "2016-04-10T17:23:26Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > DGU - one death. TBCF, not always. When people, especially gundamentalist types, speak of DGU, they include situations in which the nasty guy had the gun point at them, saw the gun or learned that a gun was in attendance and therewith fled or stood down. It may even reach “_there was this scurvy-looking dude, and I am sure he wanted to mug me, but he saw I had a gun_”. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6937 "2016-04-10T20:56:44Z")
Apparently Smith had just had dinner with a New Orleans police officer whom the murderer had sued several years ago. I guess it’s just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6938 "2016-04-10T21:56:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Just look at the entire damn rest of the world for your answer. Mexico, where it’s almost impossible for a civilian to legally own a gun. 'Nuff said. > [@](#): > > Like what, that gun owners would suddenly stop being “law-abiding citizens” and form a militia that would kill enough cops to prevent any legal restrictions from being enforced? Is that it? No, like [women](http://www.mommysgotagun.com/), [African-Americans](http://www.naaga.co/), [gays](http://www.pinkpistols.org/about-the-pink-pistols/) and even [Jews](http://jpfo.org/) bitterly protesting that they’ve been made helpless against assault and murder. Like another [huge multi-billion dollar-a-year law enforcement bureaucracy](http://cleanupatf.org/mission.html) playing whack-a-mole with an uneradicable black market of suppliers and traffickers. > [@](#): > > Then you can stop the strawmanning and deal with fears of reality, not of your fantasies. YOU, talking about reality?!? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6939 "2016-04-11T19:19:29Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Do you really imagine that you can get rid of guns? Seriously? Oh I’m sure you envision a decades-long process of “weaning” America off guns; but how well did that work for alcohol, heroin and cocaine? Do you really think a perpetual “War On Guns” could ever be a success? Or that the very effort wouldn’t have drawbacks? > > I don’t fear getting rid of guns, because that will never happen. What I do fear is _banning_ guns- all the drawbacks of guns and none of the benefits. There’s a difference between solving a problem and beating a problem with a stick. The ironic wordplay in a gun rights advocate being a fatalist is a joy to behold. Stop, yer killing me, Lumpy.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6940 "2016-04-12T03:14:51Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > First, require registration as a condition of sale; then make the registered owner responsible for how the gun is used. If they loan it to someone else, they better know that the borrower is trustworthy. If it is given as a gift, the registration should be transferred, so that the original owner can be freed of responsibility – if it is resold, again, transfer registration. If it is stolen, well, the owner fucked up and may be unable to fully escape being at least partially responsible for how it is used. > > Most guns start out in the legal market; having more control over that will reduce the black market. It will, obviously, not solve gun violence: there are other indirect causes that need to be addressed; but it will make gun owners more careful. I have long been an advocate for licensing and registration but holding the victim of theft responsible for crimes committed with the stolen object is nucking futz absent some gross negligence or wilful misconduct. What other area do we attach this sort of liability? Do we hold car owners responsible if their stolen car is used by a drunk driver to run over a bunch of orphans? Do we hold the owner of explosives responsible if their explosives are stolen and used to blow up a marathon full of runners? But you want to hold gun owners responsible for things that a thief does with their stolen gun? 😕 It really just sounds like you want to make gun ownership onerous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=346) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=348)