# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 349
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6961 "2016-04-20T19:16:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Yet the loss of civil rights like what comes after a felony conviction occurs only because states passed legislation making it so. If they can take away constitutionally guaranteed rights with legislation alone, I don’t see why we cannot extend that to further restrict gun sales. It’s accepted that a felony conviction is sufficient to suspend someone’s rights because in English law a felony was originally something that you could be executed for (or maimed, hence “life and limb”), on the theory that one had committed an act heinous enough to be considered an “outlaw”: someone who had rebelled against the government and the law. The current practice of incarceration being a merciful alternative. Loss of civil rights can be the penalty for a felony, but that doesn’t mean that anything whatsoever could be declared a felony. By design, loss of civil rights only happens after stringent standards have been met, which can’t be summarily set aside by legislation. For starters, there are things the government is flatly forbidden to do, such as declaring someone guilty by fiat (bill of attainder), or passing a law and then punishing someone retroactively ( ex post facto). Then there’s the Bill of Rights, a judiciary insulated from political meddling, and the requirement that only a jury of citizens can declare that someone is guilty of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6962 "2016-04-21T01:08:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A lot of gun rights folks have a deep mistrust of the gun control folks and with good reason. Imaginary and paranoid, yes, but, given that, good. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6963 "2016-04-27T16:21:10Z")
[Toddler terrorists strike again](http://nbcnews.to/1qRJRht): > [@](#): > > A woman driving on a Milwaukee highway was fatally shot Tuesday morning apparently by a child in the back seat, authorities said. > > … > > “Initial witness accounts indicate that a child in the back seat of the vehicle got a hold of a gun and discharged the firearm, sending a single bullet into the drivers back,” the sheriff’s office said in a statement. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6964 "2016-04-27T17:17:53Z")
Fear Itself: But most of these toddler killers mentioned in this thread are 4 years old: this one was only 2: > **[Woman accidentally shot to death by 2-year-old son mourned](https://archive.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/two-year-old-finds-loaded-gun-in-back-seat-accidentally-shoots-mom-b99714556z1-377258061.html/)** > > The toddler found the .40-caliber gun, apparently belonging to his mother’s security guard boyfriend, in the back seat of the car the woman was driving. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6965 "2016-04-28T10:09:00Z")
[Podiatrist shot by retired NYPD Officer](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/people-injured-shooting-long-island-doctor-office-article-1.2616381) _A retired NYPD officer accidentally shot his Long Island podiatrist in the foot Wednesday while trying to show off his gun, Nassau County police said._ ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6966 "2016-04-28T15:20:08Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > [Podiatrist shot by retired NYPD Officer](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/people-injured-shooting-long-island-doctor-office-article-1.2616381) > > _A retired NYPD officer accidentally shot his Long Island podiatrist in the foot Wednesday while trying to show off his gun, Nassau County police said._ Of course guns should be restricted to trained professionals, because they’re so much more competent than the great unwashed. (:rolleyes:) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6967 "2016-04-28T16:16:34Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Of course guns should be restricted to trained professionals, because they’re so much more competent than the great unwashed. > (:rolleyes:) So your argument is that more people should carry guns because they’re just as likely to inadvertently shoot someone as the police are? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6968 "2016-04-28T18:15:29Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So your argument is that more people should carry guns because they’re [del]just as likely[/del] to inadvertently shoot someone as the police are? No less likely ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6969 "2016-04-28T19:15:03Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > No less likely Considerably more likely. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6970 "2016-04-28T23:20:46Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Of course guns should be restricted to trained professionals, because they’re so much more competent than the great unwashed. > (:rolleyes:) Not a surprising attitude from someone who daydreams of killing cops in the name of resisting self-perceived tyranny. Have you ever asked your local police chief for the chance to show them how much better at their job you are? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6971 "2016-04-28T23:28:56Z")
Another [good guy](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/church-member-charged-with-fatal-shooting-at-sunday-service/2016/04/28/95d5cca0-0d73-11e6-bc53-db634ca94a2a_story.html) with a concealed permit saves churchgoers from unruly parishioner. > [@](#): > > It is clear the shooter brought a gun to a crowded church, he introduced that gun into a verbal altercation that turned into a fistfight and then fired the gun twice aiming at the vital part of the body, killing the victim,” (District Attorney) Steele said. “It doesn’t make sense to bring a gun to church.” He even carried a fake badge to make it seem official.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6972 "2016-04-28T23:46:49Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Another [good guy](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/church-member-charged-with-fatal-shooting-at-sunday-service/2016/04/28/95d5cca0-0d73-11e6-bc53-db634ca94a2a_story.html) with a concealed permit saves churchgoers from unruly parishioner. > > He even carried a fake badge to make it seem official.:smack: > [@](#): > > The shooting victim, Robert Braxton, became disruptive during services before church members calmed him down, Steele said. Witnesses told police Storms approached Braxton, showed him a gold badge and a gun in his waistband and asked him to leave. Braxton then punched Storms, who fired two shots, killing him, they said. > > Storms told investigators he bought the badge after he was issued a permit to carry a concealed weapon, according to a police affidavit. He said he showed it to Braxton hoping to defuse the situation, the affidavit said. He tried to defuse a situation that had already been defused by trying to makw guy respect his authoritah! Acted like a tough guy, killed fellow worshiper apparently having a bad day, and hopefully will have to do time. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6973 "2016-04-29T00:21:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not a surprising attitude from someone who daydreams of killing cops in the name of resisting self-perceived tyranny. > > Have you ever asked your local police chief for the chance to show them how much better at their job you are? How was your day? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6974 "2016-04-29T01:58:10Z")
Not spent fantasizing about raping toddlers. How about yours? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6975 "2016-04-29T14:50:11Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Sounds like a great idea to me- except that registries make gun confiscation possible. When you buy a gun, don’t you have to complete a form that is stored for at least 20 years? Isn’t that a registry? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6976 "2016-04-29T15:54:34Z")
Hey … the very existence of guns makes confiscation possible. Whatever shall we do about that? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6977 "2016-04-29T16:04:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > When you buy a gun, don’t you have to complete a form that is stored for at least 20 years? Isn’t that a registry? Former FFL holder here. Those forms are kept on file by the gun dealer himself. They aren’t submitted to the BATFE or other federal government agency. Tracing a gun by serial number involves starting at the manufacturer who will state to which wholesaler they sold the gun. The wholesaler can then say which dealer bought the gun from them. The dealer can then be contacted about the gun so he can check his records for who he sold it to. There is no central registry, at least at the federal level. The PA State Police does maintain a [database of handgun purchases](http://smartgunlaws.org/registration-of-firearms-in-pennsylvania/), but that has not been without controversy. The court put themselves through some circus freak level contortions to to justify the PSP’s position that the database is, somehow, not a registry. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6978 "2016-04-29T16:06:52Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Former FFL holder here. Those forms are kept on file by the gun dealer himself. They aren’t submitted to the BATFE or other federal government agency. Tracing a gun by serial number involves starting at the manufacturer who will state to which wholesaler they sold the gun. The wholesaler can then say which dealer bought the gun from them. The dealer can then be contacted about the gun so he can check his records for who he sold it to. There is no central registry, at least at the federal level. The PA State Police does maintain a [database of handgun purchases](http://smartgunlaws.org/registration-of-firearms-in-pennsylvania/), but that has not been without controversy. The court put themselves through some circus freak level contortions to to justify the PSP’s position that the database is, somehow, not a registry. Yes, so there is a registry of guns sold at each gun dealer, correct? And you honestly think that the government does not have access to those registries (or forms if you will) if they wanted to get them? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6979 "2016-04-29T16:11:57Z")
Of course they have access to them. That is exactly why I had to keep them on file. My point is that there is no **central** database. Accessing those dealer records means following that chain that starts at the manufacturer. Not all dealers have computerized their records, either. So when they find the dealer, it may involve literally going through dusty boxes of records page by page. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/6980 "2016-04-29T17:14:30Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Of course they have access to them. That is exactly why I had to keep them on file. My point is that there is no **central** database. Accessing those dealer records means following that chain that starts at the manufacturer. Not all dealers have computerized their records, either. So when they find the dealer, it may involve literally going through dusty boxes of records page by page. Correct, no central database. I was responding to the poster who said that registration leads to confiscation. That information is already captured, so it is easy to get in the event of “confiscation” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=348) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=350)