# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 421
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8402 "2018-07-21T16:03:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Two men argue over a parking space. One pushes the other to the ground, who responds by drawing a gun and killing the other man. Stand your ground invoked, no charges filed. > > [Video here.](ABC News: Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of ‘Stand Your Ground’ law. > [Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/gunman-parking-space-shooting-charged-stand-ground-law/story?id=56715356)) Sounds legit to me. The definition of a “good guy with a gun” is the guy that is still standing when the shooting stops. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8403 "2018-07-21T16:38:48Z")
In case anyone is wondering and would like some stats: [Florida Homicide Rate Increased After Passage of ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law, Study Finds](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/florida-homicide-rate-increased-passage-stand-ground-law/story?id=43527659): > [@](#): > > To see if they could find any measurable effects in the homicide rate after the law’s passage, researchers from the University of Oxford looked at Florida homicide data at various times from 1999 to 2014. They then compared the rates with those in four control states (New Jersey, New York, Ohio and Virginia) with no “stand your ground” laws. > > By examining data from a database run by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, researchers found that after the law was passed in Florida, homicides increased approximately 21 percent — from an average of 82 homicides per month from 1999 to October 2005 to 99 homicides per month from October 2005 to 2014. > > Additionally, they found the rate of homicide by firearm went up almost 41 percent, from a mean of 49 homicides per month to 69 during those periods. > > Researchers found no similar increases in the four control states. ETA: [Evaluating the Impact of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Self-defense Law on Homicide and Suicide by Firearm: An Interrupted Time Series Study](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2582988) is a direct link to the study itself. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8404 "2018-07-21T16:48:07Z")
Gee, what a surprise. Enabling assholes leads to more assholish behavior. Who would’ve thunk it? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8405 "2018-07-21T17:19:04Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Gee, what a surprise. Enabling assholes leads to more assholish behavior. Who would’ve thunk it? I can see how, if you are worried about being beaten up, you would not initiate or escalate a confrontation. But if you have a gun, and know that you are allowed to kill anyone you perceive to be threatening, then initiating and escalating confrontations becomes simply a way to get an excuse to kill someone. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8406 "2018-07-21T17:37:26Z")
And none of these cases will ever be premeditated set-ups… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8407 "2018-07-21T18:03:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Two men argue over a parking space. One pushes the other to the ground, who responds by drawing a gun and killing the other man. Stand your ground invoked, no charges filed. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/gunman-parking-space-shooting-charged-stand-ground-law/story?id=56715356) > [@asahi](#): > > The laws in states like Florid allow CCW permit holders (usually white males) to go play cop, initiate a heated confrontation to the point where people feel like coming to blows, and then pull out a gun and claim self defense. The gunman knew he was escalating the situation. He knew there was a pretty good chance he was going to get into a fight with someone, and he assumed that whenever he did, he could legally kill them. And it seems he assumed correctly. Shades of George Zimmerman. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sounds legit to me. The definition of a “good guy with a gun” is the guy that is still standing when the shooting stops. The waitress in Savannah, GA who was recently assaulted and then took down her assailant could likely have shot and killed the man and faced no criminal charges had this happened in Florida and had Miss Holden had a gun nearby. I am having a hard time finding myself in agreement that this is a valid response and outcome for this crime, but it seems that at least in Florida, that’s how it is. I hope I’m not alone in saying that the current state of our society, in many aspects, is quite a bit different than how I would prefer. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8408 "2018-07-21T19:56:13Z")
[Man shoots 3 people, killing one.](http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/spring-hill-smoke-shop-owner-glad-to-be-alive-after-shooting) Police are unable to catch him, fortunately, one of the victims, after being shot in the chest, manages to return fire. Good on the good guy with the gun to stop the bad guy with the gun, but had the bad guy been stopped from having a gun, there’d be one less innocent dead victim, 2 less innocent wounded victims, and one less dead assailant. [Some](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21100058&postcount=1457) would call this positive news for guns, at the very best and most generous, I would call it a draw. One dead victim, one dead assailant, 2 injured victims using scarce medical resources. Guns did more harm than good in that scenario, hard to see otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8409 "2018-07-21T20:48:33Z")
So by this logic it was a positive gun news story when Stephen Paddock was shot dead in Las Vegas… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8410 "2018-07-21T22:16:57Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > So by this logic it was a positive gun news story when Stephen Paddock was shot dead in Las Vegas… Was that a bad guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun? Or a bad guy transforming momentarily into a good guy in order to stop the bad guy who was actually now the good guy? Or can we just blame that whole thing on bad pharma? ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8411 "2018-07-22T10:12:56Z")
Oh, sorry, I didn’t know there had to be a good guy involved - after all it’s not a positive good guy news. All I’m saying is that in Las Vegas a bad guy was shot dead - with a gun, you see. Apparently a bad guy shot dead is enough for some people to fit the bill. All collateral damage is just a cheap price for a possibility that a bad guy gets shot down by somebody. Also notice that the shooter is defined as a ‘good guy’ only because he shoots the bad guy - before that he might have been known as a town drunk, village idiot or wife-beater. Not exactly your poster boy for a good guy, right ? Indeed, previously he might have been known as a lot worse person than the bad guy ( who just had a momentarily nervous breakdown and would’ve been submitted to treatment by sympathetic people, only he happened to own a gun because he was a real American ). And so on… How else they can explain aforementioned Spring Hill case being a positive gun news? ( For me positive gun news would be somebody armed stopping a bad guy \*\*\*before \*\*\* he does any damage. ) ( I had to use Google translate for some parts - but I think you get what I’m saying… ) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8412 "2018-07-22T12:27:13Z")
Americans’ freedom to possess guns, in and of itself, makes it a culture that is more prone to violence. A person who walks about town carrying a loaded firearm is presumably prepared to use it in any sort of confrontation, which makes him more confident about confronting people, and makes it more likely that a simple argument that easily be could deescalated with the right choice of words or behavior instead turns into a fatal encounter. This asshole, just like Zimmerman, never had to confront anyone; he could have called the police. He could have taken a picture of the license plate and sent it to the police. He could have taken a picture of the license plate and the offenders and embarrassed them on social media. Instead, he initiated a hostile confrontation, and this was the outcome that he probably predicted, and I suspect that this is what he wanted. He didn’t seem to give it much thought to killing a man, so it’s hard to believe that he didn’t somehow have a desire to do so. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8413 "2018-07-22T13:04:38Z")
Yes, it is a perfect plan for any mob hit-man. Instigate an argument, wait until the other guy pushes you, then kill him = self-defense, no charges. You’ve all heard how New York alone had more murders at the time than the whole wild west combined. I’d bet that it’s because so many obvious murders were written off as [self-defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaudeville_Theater_ambush). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8414 "2018-07-22T13:31:12Z")
> **[No arrest in fatal shooting during argument over handicap parking space](https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/No-arrest-in-fatal-shooting-during-argument-over-handicap-parking-space_170174041/)** > > CLEARWATER — Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri announced Friday that his agency will not arrest a man deputies say shot and killed another man during an argument over a handicap parking space. > [@](#): > > At the convenience store Friday, customers filed in and out, buying cigarettes, lottery tickets and sodas, many of them familiar with details of the shooting. Mustafa Hashen, a clerk and witness, said both men were regulars. > > It wasn’t the first time he saw Drejka in a fight with another customer. A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot. > > The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said. > > “It’s a repeat. It happened to me the first time. The second time it’s happening, someone’s life got taken,” Kelly said. “He provoked that.” Premeditation. But under Florida law, as long as you aren’t the one escalating a heated verbal confrontation into a physical one, you can claim you were ‘afraid’ and then pull out a concealed firearm and end someone’s life. This law is all kinds of fucked up. Even the Sheriff seems to think so. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8415 "2018-07-22T23:18:58Z")
[Definition of a Good Guy with a Gun](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/18/arizona-senate-candidate-who-fatally-shot-his-mom-decades-ago-argues-for-gun-rights-for-self-defense.html): > [@](#): > > When it comes to gun ownership, Arizona state Senate candidate Bobby Wilson says it’s important to have a “good guy with a gun” in dangerous situations. > > Wilson pointed to a time in 1963 when he said he had to be such a guy — against his own mother. > … > The Republican candidate told the Arizona Republic his mother, Lavonne, came into his room and began to shoot at him. At one point, he said she swung her gun around, striking his 17-year-old sister, Judy, in the back of her head. Judy died due to the impact to her head, Wilson said, recalling an autopsy report. > … > At first, Wilson confessed to the murders but later said he had no memory of the night. > > While on trial, Wilson said he suffered from amnesia. A jury ruled he was “not capable of proceeding to trial and making a rational defense,” and the case was suspended. > … > Reports in the local paper at the time, the Choctaw County Weekly, contradicted Wilson’s account of the events. The bodies of Wilson’s mother and sister were found “in a ‘perfectly relaxed’ position, indicating they died in their sleep from suffocation,” the paper said, according to the Arizona Republic. And that’s the Fox version of the story. Defensive Gun Use with 2 deaths. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8416 "2018-07-23T04:11:39Z")
BTW, apparently NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch removed all references to the NRA on her Twitter account this weekend. [https://twitter.com/DLoesch?s=09](https://twitter.com/DLoesch?s=09) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8417 "2018-07-23T12:09:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > In case anyone is wondering and would like some stats: [Florida Homicide Rate Increased After Passage of ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law, Study Finds](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/florida-homicide-rate-increased-passage-stand-ground-law/story?id=43527659):ETA: [Evaluating the Impact of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Self-defense Law on Homicide and Suicide by Firearm: An Interrupted Time Series Study](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2582988) is a direct link to the study itself. > [@asahi](#): > > [No arrest in fatal shooting during argument over handicap parking space](https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/No-arrest-in-fatal-shooting-during-argument-over-handicap-parking-space_170174041) > > Premeditation. > > But under Florida law, as long as you aren’t the one escalating a heated verbal confrontation into a physical one, you can claim you were ‘afraid’ and then pull out a concealed firearm and end someone’s life. In any of the libtard gun-grabbing states, these courageous white men could have been arrested for standing their ground. ☹ I think these stories belong in the MPSIMS “_My wonderful gun makes my cock so hard I don’t even need a sex doll_” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8418 "2018-07-23T15:32:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > BTW, apparently NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch removed all references to the NRA on her Twitter account this weekend. > > [https://twitter.com/DLoesch?s=09](https://twitter.com/DLoesch?s=09) I am NOT defending Loesch in any way, but she apparently removed the NRA tag from her bio in 2017. Looking at captures on the [Wayback machine](https://web.archive.org/web/20171114223059/https://twitter.com/DLoesch), it looks like she removed the tag between 11/9/17 and 11/14/17. I’m not sure it means much since AFAICT she has still acted as a spokesperson since then. I really wish she and others were running scared from the NRA because it’s about to be revealed as a Russian front. But that doesn’t appear to be the case. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8419 "2018-07-23T15:52:17Z")
I looked at the WB machine and wasn’t able to get a previous review of her twitter profile. Appreciate the clarification and correction! ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8420 "2018-07-23T16:23:12Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This law is all kinds of fucked up. Even the Sheriff seems to think so. Even so the sheriff could certainly have arrested the shooter and let the courts sort it out. Instead he wouldn’t lift a finger. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/8421 "2018-07-23T17:54:08Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Even so the sheriff could certainly have arrested the shooter and let the courts sort it out. Instead he wouldn’t lift a finger. He’s not allowed to. The 2017 SYG expansion makes it very, very difficult for law enforcement to charge or even arrest anyone with a plausible SYG defense. > [@Florida Statutes](#): > > 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use or threatened use of force.— > (1) A person who uses or threatens to use force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in such conduct and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use or threatened use of such force by the person, personal representative, or heirs of the person against whom the force was used or threatened, unless the person against whom force was used or threatened is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using or threatening to use force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant. > (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use or threatened use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using or threatening to use force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used or threatened was unlawful. > (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1). > (4) In a criminal prosecution, once a prima facie claim of self-defense immunity from criminal prosecution has been raised by the defendant at a pretrial immunity hearing, the burden of proof by clear and convincing evidence is on the party seeking to overcome the immunity from criminal prosecution provided in subsection (1). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=420) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=422)