# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/901 "2013-03-07T00:54:20Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Damuri Ajashi** , you’re just wasting my time now. Even the cites you’ve brought make clear that the NRA has exerted its influence to severely restrict research on firearms violence. Pffft. Yeah the NRA has exerted its influence to severely restrict research on firearm violence from the CDC. The NIH is also restricted and while you haven’t provided me with any evidence that this restriction was the result of NRA arm-twisting, lets just say it was. So what? There has been research conducted by other agencies and private organizations without any objection from the NRA. > [@](#): > > I think the truth is that you heard a bunch of allegations from gun-types, repeated them here, struggled to find foundation for the claims when they were called into question, don’t really understand the issues, and have sadly chosen to fall back on a very hard-headed strategy of deception and obfuscation of the matter. Errmm. I’ve admitted to error in the past (at least twice in this thread, thanks for fighting my ignorance, I’ve been trying to return the favor but its taking longer than I thought), why would you think that I would be hard headed about admitting to error again? I think you are projecting your inability to admit you might be wrong about something into me. I honestly don’t care about a ban on gun violence research and I have no interest in defending the NRA. I have no interest in maligning the CDC or just proving myself right on anything. You are reading a LOT into the fact that I misused the phrase peer review (something I copped to a while back). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/902 "2013-03-07T01:43:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Pffft. Yeah the NRA has exerted its influence to severely restrict research on firearm violence from the CDC. The NIH is also restricted and while you haven’t provided me with any evidence that this restriction was the result of NRA arm-twisting, lets just say it was. So what?.. Because a lot of really important decisions are made based on their work. The work being epidemiology, one must expect that work to be pretty important. If the NRA has reason to believe that they are incompetent or corrupt, it is their civic duty to bring that evidence to our attention. Have you seen any such evidence? It would pretty much have to be evidence of cooking the books, wouldn’t it? Or is it just the suspicion that they might be so inclined. So, OK. Total transparency, which was probably going to happen anyway. Publish your methods and approaches in advance, give everybody plenty of time to point out flaws and biases. The NRA has plenty of money, they can easily hire some statistical wizards to give it the fine tooth comb treatment. And if its all kosher, they can then avail themselves of a nice hot cup of shut the fuck up. Otherwise, they leave the distinct impression that they believe that the study will be factual, relevant and unfavorable to their preferred view. Pretty much my view on it, to be frank, but if they want to change that view, it would be pretty easy for them to do. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/903 "2013-03-07T03:11:33Z")
Women the fastest growing group of gun owners: [http://thegunwire.com/blog/video-women-fastest-growing-group-of-us-gun-owners/](http://thegunwire.com/blog/video-women-fastest-growing-group-of-us-gun-owners/) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/904 "2013-03-07T03:41:43Z")
Fewer households [own guns](http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/politics/gun-ownership-declining): > [@](#): > > The number of households owning guns has declined from almost 50% in 1973 to just over 32% in 2010, according to a 2011 study produced by The University of Chicago’s National Opinion Research Center. The number of gun owners has gone down almost 10% over the same period, the report found ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/905 "2013-03-07T03:51:55Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Fewer households [own guns](http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/politics/gun-ownership-declining): Actually no: > **[Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993](https://news.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx)** > > Forty-seven percent of American adults currently report that they have a gun in their home or elsewhere on their property. This is up from 41% a year ago and is the highest Gallup has recorded since 1993. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/906 "2013-03-07T03:55:31Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Actually no: > > [http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx](http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx) From your cite: > [@](#): > > A clear societal change took place regarding gun ownership in the early 1990s, when the percentage of Americans saying there was a gun in their home or on their property dropped from the low to mid-50s into the low to mid-40s and remained at that level for the next 15 years. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/907 "2013-03-07T04:29:11Z")
And it’s up sharply since then. Isn’t that what Gallup found Fearitself? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/908 "2013-03-07T04:36:36Z")
Come on Fearitself, you can admit it. Can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/909 "2013-03-07T06:29:25Z")
Its like I’m listening to a guy bubble over with excitement and joy as he tells me how advanced our culture has become, since so many of us are armed with lethal weapons to protect ourselves from each other. Groovy. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/910 "2013-03-07T06:30:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Because a lot of really important decisions are made based on their work. The work being epidemiology, one must expect that work to be pretty important. If the NRA has reason to believe that they are incompetent or corrupt, it is their civic duty to bring that evidence to our attention. > > Have you seen any such evidence? It would pretty much have to be evidence of cooking the books, wouldn’t it? Or is it just the suspicion that they might be so inclined. > > So, OK. Total transparency, which was probably going to happen anyway. Publish your methods and approaches in advance, give everybody plenty of time to point out flaws and biases. The NRA has plenty of money, they can easily hire some statistical wizards to give it the fine tooth comb treatment. And if its all kosher, they can then avail themselves of a nice hot cup of shut the fuck up. > > Otherwise, they leave the distinct impression that they believe that the study will be factual, relevant and unfavorable to their preferred view. Pretty much my view on it, to be frank, but if they want to change that view, it would be pretty easy for them to do. I dont know that I disagree with anything you say. Can you explains the intersect of gun violence and epidemiology without referring to suicide? Why is an epidemiologist more qualified to study the correlation between gun ownership and being the victim of homocide than a criminologist? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/911 "2013-03-07T06:33:18Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > And it’s up sharply since then. Isn’t that what Gallup found Fearitself? I would bet that the percentage of gun ownership is up sharply since Feinstein started threatening our constitutional rights. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/912 "2013-03-07T06:36:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its like I’m listening to a guy bubble over with excitement and joy as he tells me how advanced our culture has become, since so many of us are armed with lethal weapons to protect ourselves from each other. > > Groovy. I dont know that we will ever be so advanced that we will not have the need or desire for weapons. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/913 "2013-03-07T07:19:16Z")
There is no good reason to hope, but I’ve nothing better to do. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/914 "2013-03-07T09:23:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There is no good reason to hope, but I’ve nothing better to do. I’ve seen how that turns out: we get rid of all weapons, the aliens invade and we’re forced to chase them off with boards with nails in them. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/915 "2013-03-07T11:58:36Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Come on Fearitself, you can admit it. Can’t you? **States with strictest firearm laws have lowest rates of gun deaths** , [study finds](http://www.boston.com/dailydose/2013/03/06/states-with-strictest-firearm-laws-have-lowest-rates-gun-deaths-boston-children-hospital-study-finds/zaIGbTdwtVaPFiGlCfSlTP/story.html): > [@](#): > > The research, published online Wednesday in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine, analyzed gun laws in all 50 states as well as the total number of gun-related deaths in each state from 2007 through 2010. It found that fatality rates ranged from a high of 17.9 per 100,000 people in Louisiana – a state among those with the fewest gun laws – to a low of 2.9 per 100,000 in Hawaii, which ranks sixth for its number of gun restrictions. Massachusetts, which the researchers said has the most gun restrictions, had a gun fatality rate of 3.4 per 100,000. > > “Critics of gun laws have said that gun laws don’t work, but our research indicates the opposite,” said study leader Dr. Eric Fleegler, a pediatric emergency medicine physician at Boston Children’s Hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/916 "2013-03-07T12:59:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > **States with strictest firearm laws have lowest rates of gun deaths** , [study finds](http://www.boston.com/dailydose/2013/03/06/states-with-strictest-firearm-laws-have-lowest-rates-gun-deaths-boston-children-hospital-study-finds/zaIGbTdwtVaPFiGlCfSlTP/story.html): OK, so you can’t admit that gallup found gun ownership is up sharply in recent years? You just can’t do it? You just change the subject. Anyway see how your link says “gun deaths” rather than homicides? That because homicides didn’t show the trend and they needed to count suicides. That’s how gun control “researchers” manipulate the simple minded. We all knew guns were needed for gun related suicides. Without them they become hanging, carbon monoxide, or train jumping related suicides. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/r8oDlCeD78M/hqdefault.jpg "Dumb Liberal Explains why Gun Ownership Should be illegal") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8oDlCeD78M) You’re the girl. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/917 "2013-03-07T13:00:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its like I’m listening to a guy bubble over with excitement and joy as he tells me how advanced our culture has become, since so many of us are armed with lethal weapons to protect ourselves from each other. Somewhere in ages past, _ **Kable erectus** _ (distinguished by the almost imperceptibly steeper slant of his forehead) employs sweeping gestures and animated grunts to express to his tribe his excitement over the burgeoning proliferation of bone-clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/918 "2013-03-07T13:03:15Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > **States with strictest firearm laws have lowest rates of gun deaths** , [study finds](http://www.boston.com/dailydose/2013/03/06/states-with-strictest-firearm-laws-have-lowest-rates-gun-deaths-boston-children-hospital-study-finds/zaIGbTdwtVaPFiGlCfSlTP/story.html): Assuming this is correct (and there are just as many studies that claim to show that increased gun ownership leads to fewer crimes overall), could there be a “chicken or egg” effect here? Could regions with low crime and murder rates see little utility in allowing guns and so be more likely to restrict them? ETA: Or in other words, would imposing stricter gun laws on regions that currently have high violence and murder rates actually reduce those rates? Debatable. > [@elucidator](#): > > Its like I’m listening to a guy bubble over with excitement and joy as he tells me how advanced our culture has become, since so many of us are armed with lethal weapons to protect ourselves from each other. > > Groovy. Guns are for more than protecting us “from each other”; when gun ownership is widespread enough, collective security becomes decentralized, minimizing dependency on the state for security. I think that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/919 "2013-03-07T13:26:17Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Somewhere in ages past, _ **Kable erectus** _ (distinguished by the almost imperceptibly steeper slant of his forehead) employs sweeping gestures and animated grunts to express to his tribe his excitement over the burgeoning proliferation of bone-clubs. Among other things gun prohibition leads to 30% increase in rape: [http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article\_ID=17847](http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/920 "2013-03-07T14:59:24Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Among other things gun prohibition leads to 30% increase in rape: > > [http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article\_ID=17847](http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847) Yeah, that statistic appears to be bandied about quite a lot on esteemed think tanks like the Free Republic. Not so much the corresponding stats that gun-related suicide and homicide fell (dramatically, in the case of suicide) and there hasn’t been a single mass shooting in more than a decade since the laws were enacted. Nor that rates of gun ownership in Australia were [already vanishingly small](http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/05/the-misuse-of-our-gun-crime-stats/) compared to the U.S. even before the ban, which casts some doubt on the implication that guns were previously a widespread effective deterrent against rape and now the rapists are enjoying a disarmament free-for-all. But hey, _post hoc, ergo propter hoc_, right? When it suits, at least. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=47)