# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 469
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9365 "2021-02-15T17:29:43Z")
It’s my understanding that the men immediately shot the grandmother after breaking into the home. It seems quite probable that they weren’t planning on leaving any witnesses The 12 year old saved himself and his grandmother. That seems pretty positive to me. Yes, it’s tragic that it became necessary for a child to be put in this situation. But home invasions are a part of life. Especially in lower class neighborhoods. I live in one and worry constantly. Our mailman got held up 5 blocks from my house. Stuff like that gets your attention. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9366 "2021-02-15T17:41:28Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > 🤨 By declaring that any story involving guns, and having at least one “good” gun user standing at the end of it as a positive is a pretty pro-gun violence stance. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > I suppose I would agree, in spite of my own preference for debate and prove-me-wrong to be on debate threads – though maybe there will always be the question whether this is the place for news about “stupid” gun-related things or for calling out WRONG gun-related things. In theory, there could be a thread for debating stories of gun use, but I don’t see how it wouldn’t end up in the pit or closed eventually, so may as well just stick with this one. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > AIUI that other thread was created partly as a response to _this one_ that preexisted it. Yep, it was pretty much trolling from the get-go. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Positive that someone successfully repelled a home invasion. Negative that the home invaders were armed in the first place. So, on the whole, a story of defensive gun use. Not really a positive story. > [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s my understanding that the men immediately shot the grandmother after breaking into the home. It seems quite probable that they weren’t planning on leaving any witnesses > > The 12 year old saved himself and his grandmother. That seems pretty positive to me. Do you think that this is the sort of story that this kid will tell to his kids to comfort them about the dangerous world they live in? The 12 year old only had to endure the trauma of seeing his grandmother shot, and then that of taking another’s life, because of easy access to guns in the first place. Seems a pretty negative story about guns to me. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Yes, it’s tragic that it became necessary for a child to be put in this situation. But home invasions are a part of life. Yep, especially since they have such easy access to guns. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I live in one and worry constantly. I live in one, I had a fatal shooting 2 blocks from here on one side a couple months ago, a few months prior, a few more blocks on the other side. I don’t worry much about it at all. Don’t have a gun in the house, and rarely lock my doors when I’m home. I _do_ have dogs though. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Our mailman got held up 5 blocks from my house. Sounds like a good story for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9367 "2021-02-15T17:46:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > By declaring that any story involving guns, and having at least one “good” gun user standing at the end of it as a positive is a pretty pro-gun violence stance. But that’s just the position of the OP and the news posters in that thread. I don’t see that as a stance of “this board” which you seemed to imply. Nor do I see a counterpoint position as trollery. But you know what, that’s debate and I had posted I’d rather see debate elsewhere so I’ll leave it at that here. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9369 "2021-02-15T17:54:20Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But that’s just the position of the OP and the news posters in that thread. I don’t see that as a stance of “this board” which you seemed to imply. There was a _very_ long and contentious debate in ATMB, and that was the final word of the board powers that be. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Nor do I see a counterpoint position as trollery. I do consider that thread to be trolling, as it is well known that a significant number of posters to this board would question the positivity of these stories, and it was created with the specific intent of framing these stories as positive. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > But you know what, that’s debate and I had posted I’d rather see debate elsewhere so I’ll leave it at that here. If you want to start a GD thread about the positivity of these stories of defensive gun use, go ahead. I entirely support that. Just don’t think it will last long before it gets relegated to the pit or closed. I don’t remember specifics, but I’m pretty sure that it was explicitly said that this was the place to question such stories by TPTB. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9370 "2021-02-15T23:14:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not really worth re-litigating, I’ve come to accept the pro-gun violence stance that this board has taken, it’s better to just give them shit from time to time over here than to go through all that again. I actually quit the board for about 6 months and almost didn’t come back over it, but, now I just ignore it as much as possible. There is definitely an argument to be made that any story that ends with someone dead is not really much of a “positive” story. I made that argument in the thread in the past, was informed of the “safe space” rules, and accepted that, which is why I don’t jump into that thread every time the gun crowd gathers round to celebrate another killing. I’ve accepted that ruling. Snowflakes gonna snowflake ❄. THIS TIME, my objection is that - even if things ended up well in this particular circumstance - the idea that a 12 year old kid can EVER access a gun is simply NOT positive. The 12 year old brain is not fully developed yet, and this kid had access to a deadly weapon in a matter of seconds. This story could easily have gone another way, with the 12 year old with access to a loaded firearm showing it to his friend and blowing his brains out by mistake, or getting dumped by a girlfriend the same week he is viciously bullied and responding by shooting up his school. THAT is what was particularly disturbing about this story in particular that brought me back to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9371 "2021-02-15T23:16:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just don’t think it will last long before it gets relegated to the pit or closed. Yep - I just had my GD gun thread closed because the snowflake ❄ gun nuts can’t handle their “right” to murder others being questioned. I guess there’s nothing left to do but point and laugh at them in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9372 "2021-02-15T23:24:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > 12 year old has to deal with the fact that he killed someone. Something he will have to carry with him the rest of his life. If he considers it a righteous shooting, he may carry it very lightly, indeed. Dan ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9373 "2021-02-15T23:31:48Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, on the whole, a story of defensive gun use. Not really a positive story. > > > [@aceplace57](#): > > > > It’s my understanding that the men immediately shot the grandmother after breaking into the home. It seems quite probable that they weren’t planning on leaving any witnesses > > > > > The 12 year old saved himself and his grandmother. That seems pretty positive to me. > > Do you think that this is the sort of story that this kid will tell to his kids to comfort them about the dangerous world they live in? Gee, he lived to tell the story, y’know? Kind of a positive outcome, I’d say. Dan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9374 "2021-02-15T23:51:06Z")
> [@Dandan](#): > > If he considers it a righteous shooting, he may carry it very lightly, indeed. I don’t think that anyone carries the weight of ending someone else’s life lightly. Except sociopaths, of course. > [@Dandan](#): > > Gee, he lived to tell the story, y’know? Kind of a positive outcome, I’d say. It is indeed a story of defensive gun use, but a positive story about guns? Not really. Had the home invaders not had easy access to guns, his grandmother would not have been shot, and he would not have had to kill someone. Like I said earlier, if you consider any story about guns where the “good” guy is the last guy standing to be positive, then sure, you can consider it that. I just don’t agree with that pro-gun violence stance. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9375 "2021-02-15T23:55:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t think that anyone carries the weight of ending someone else’s life lightly. > > Except sociopaths, of course. Yeah. Let’s not make light of it, it **is** a serious thing. It may be a case of “I did what I had to do” so one does not go around tormenting oneself over it, but it’s still not per se a happy moment. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9376 "2021-02-16T00:01:08Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > THIS TIME, my objection is that - even if things ended up well in this particular circumstance - the idea that a 12 year old kid can EVER access a gun is simply NOT positive. Why’s that, you think that they may do something irresponsible with it? [https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/06/us/ohio-gun-school-trnd/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/06/us/ohio-gun-school-trnd/index.html) > **[Two students arrested for bringing loaded gun to school causing lockdown, Mt....](https://www.fox19.com/2019/10/30/student-brought-loaded-gun-school-causing-lockdown-mt-healthy-police-say/)** > > They say the lockdown is only a precaution and don’t believe anyone is currently in danger. > **[Police: Princeton High School student charged after bringing handgun, BB gun...](https://www.wlwt.com/article/police-princeton-high-school-student-charged-after-bringing-handgun-bb-gun-to-school/30758663)** > > A Princeton High School student was charged Monday after police said he brought a handgun and a BB gun to school. > **[Northwestern student’s gun was loaded when recovered, police say](https://www.whio.com/news/crime--law/chief-northwestern-student-brings-gun-school/kswIY6BrS9zH1BZCw6Xh2M/)** > > A Northwestern High School student is accused of bringing a gun to school Wednesday, German Twp. Police Chief Mike Stitzel said. > **[Kids Brought Guns to School at Least 392 Times Last Year](https://fortune.com/2019/10/23/how-many-school-shootings-in-2019-gun-control/)** > > Here's what experts say we should do about it. > [@Babale](#): > > This story could easily have gone another way, with the 12 year old with access to a loaded firearm showing it to his friend and blowing his brains out by mistake That’d never happen! > **[Florida teen accidentally shoots, kills 2 friends](https://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-teen-accidentally-shoots-kills-friends/story?id=67342707)** > > A teenage boy in Florida is facing manslaughter charges after police say he accidentally shot and killed two friends. > **[Boy, 14, Fatally Shoots Friend Accidentally | PatchPM](https://patch.com/illinois/across-il/boy-14-fatally-shoots-friend-accidentally-patchpm)** > > Walmart evacuates | Fallen soldier comes home | Blaze put out days later | Missing endangered man | Little League World Series | Rat capital > **[Harrisburg teen charged with manslaughter in shooting death of his...](https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/06/harrisburg-teen-charged-with-manslaughter-in-shooting-death-of-his-14-year-old-friend.html)** > > The teen allegedly shot Tyrone Gibson accidentally as they were all running away from a different group of teens, according to prosecutors. > **[Teen Accidentally Shoots Friend in Chest During Sleepover](https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/san-antonio/news/2019/08/03/teen-accidentally-shoots-friend-in-chest-during-sleepover)** > > Police have ruled it an accident. > **[Boy, 11, accidentally shoots 12-year-old friend while playing with gun during...](https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/trending/boy-11-accidentally-shoots-12-year-old-friend-while-playing-with-gun-during-sleepover-police-say/SMVWIM6BRRB4HGW7ZOURQNAMRU/)** > > According to the Canton Repository and WHBC, the shooting occurred early Tuesday at a home on Cherry Avenue in Canton, Ohio. > [@Babale](#): > > getting dumped by a girlfriend the same week he is viciously bullied and responding by shooting up his school. What an active imagination you must have! [https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/14/us/california-school-shooting/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/14/us/california-school-shooting/index.html) > **[Teen gunman kills 17, injures 17 at Parkland, Florida high school | February...](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/parkland-marjory-stoneman-douglas-school-shooting)** > > On February 14, 2018, an expelled student entered Parkland, Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and opened fire, killing 17 people and wounding 17 others, in what became at the time the deadliest shooting at a high school in United States... > **[10 years. 180 school shootings. 356 victims.](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/07/us/ten-years-of-school-shootings-trnd/)** > > CNN examined 10 years of shootings on K-12 campuses across the US. The numbers we found reveal some sobering and surprising truths. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9377 "2021-02-16T00:02:49Z")
It’s a good thing there was a gun involved here, elsewise, the gun owner may have lost an argument with a mall employee! [https://www.azfamily.com/news/17-year-old-boy-killed-in-shooting-at-desert-sky-mall-in-west-phoenix/article\_b7c93e92-6f01-11eb-869a-93973999cb97.html](https://www.azfamily.com/news/17-year-old-boy-killed-in-shooting-at-desert-sky-mall-in-west-phoenix/article_b7c93e92-6f01-11eb-869a-93973999cb97.html) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9378 "2021-02-16T00:11:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Yep - I just had my GD gun thread closed because the snowflake ❄ gun nuts can’t handle their “right” to murder others being questioned. I guess there’s nothing left to do but point and laugh at them in this thread. Yep, I took a look at it, and decided not to participate. Gun nuts cannot argue in good faith, and they really can’t, as they have no good faith argument to stand on. They just whine and troll until the thread gets shut down. Rinse repeat… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9379 "2021-02-16T00:16:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Why’s that, you think that they may do something irresponsible with it? You’re right, I’m probably just being melodramatic… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9380 "2021-02-16T00:44:36Z")
I haven’t looked. How long did it take someone to say “Chicago”? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9381 "2021-02-16T01:14:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > the idea that a 12 year old kid can EVER access a gun is simply NOT positive. I am not a gun owner, nor do I support unfettered access to guns. I have posted in that other thread a couple of times questioning whether specific posts were actually positive. However, your statement is a hasty generalization. There are areas in the U.S. where guns for hunting and recreation are part of everyday life and children are raised around them, and given proper training and respect for them. I have no idea if this is the case in that particular story, but you can’t make a generalization that no 12-year-old can ever learn to handle guns responsibly. The fact remains that this 12-year-old very possibly saved his grandmother’s life. Remember she had already been shot. But this story shows the dangers of easy access to guns by criminals. No amount of gun ownership by law-abiding citizens can offset the ready availability of guns to criminals, and so I find the story to be negative rather than positive. The “good guy with a gun” argument leads to the arms race where you have these shootouts happening everywhere, unlike other civilized nations with sane gun controls. A story that ends with a criminal dying of gunshot wounds is a smug argument for gun ownership but I have to believe we would be better off with fewer deaths overall, even if some of the saved lives were that of criminals. Few people are all bad or all good. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9382 "2021-02-16T02:14:59Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > However, your statement is a hasty generalization. There are areas in the U.S. where guns for hunting and recreation are part of everyday life and children are raised around them, and given proper training and respect for them. I have no idea if this is the case in that particular story, but you can’t make a generalization that no 12-year-old can ever learn to handle guns responsibly. Yes, there are parts of the US where idiots give their kids guns to hunt with. There are also parts of the world where slightly bigger idiots marry their 12 year olds off to 40 year old men. A child cannot consent to sex nor should they be given tools of killing for many of the same reasons. Just because it is “normal” in some areas doesn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9383 "2021-02-16T02:38:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > there are parts of the US where idiots give their kids guns to hunt with. You ignored the point of my argument. A 12-year-old can learn to handle a gun responsibly. Not all 12-year-olds can, but it is just wrong to make a blanket statement that no 12-year-old should ever touch any kind of gun. My kids learned riflery in summer camp at about that age and it was a very positive experience. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9384 "2021-02-16T02:49:39Z")
Sub the word “sex” for “gun” and hopefully you see the problem. No, a 12 year old isn’t responsible enough to handle a tool designed for killing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9385 "2021-02-16T03:14:14Z")
In fact, a child is incapable of understanding the full consequences of shooting someone. “But my 12 year old is so mature! They can handle it!” Cry the parents whose kid shoots up a school the day before it happens, or the proud parents of the child bride. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=468) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=470)