# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 494
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9868 "2021-12-03T17:08:31Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I typically hunt with 6 and then 10 more 9n my butt. I’ve been hunting deer for ~30y, and I’ve never needed (nor had the opportunity for) more than two shots to take an animal down. And then maybe a third to finish the animal off. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > my guide wanted me to shoot at an elk on the run. That’s a pretty advanced shot, way beyond the skills of the majority of hunters to do well. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > hit her but she didn’t drop and I took 5 follow up shots as she was still running As I said… If you need FIVE freakin’ follow up shots to down the animal, you’re either a crappy shooter or you’ve taken on a shot which you weren’t capable to do. Which basically means that you’re a crappy shooter. “A man’s gotta know his limitations” ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9869 "2021-12-03T17:24:33Z")
The Oakland County (Michigan) prosecutor is charging the high school shooter’s **parents** each with four counts of involuntary homicide: > **[There is a manhunt for parents of the Michigan high school shooting suspect |...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/03/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-superintendent-message/index.html)** > > Hours after a prosecutor announced involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents of Ethan Crumbley, the 15-year-old accused of killing four fellow students at a Michigan high school, authorities said Friday that the parents are missing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9870 "2021-12-03T17:33:48Z")
Good. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9871 "2021-12-03T17:41:41Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Well, I’d probably make it a fallingblock single shot for the improved accuracy but I would be lying if I said that wasn’t a giant pain in the ass at the range when practicing to go hunt and sight in my rifle for the season. I guess the question is whether avoiding that “extra pain in the ass” is worth the increased body count that is associated with larger magazines being used in mass shootings. I personally don’t think it would be, but since I’m not a gun owner and so don’t have to put up with the inconvenience, I recognize that gun owners probably feel differently. But rather than discussing the topic with reasonable debate as to what the pros and cons of such a policy would be, we get a blanket, “OMG!! They are coming for your guns! Tyranny! Thoughts and Prayers! Thoughts and Prayers!” ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9872 "2021-12-03T17:51:57Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > school shooter’s **parents** Great! But, the kid will get off with the usual self-defense thing. After all the guys he shot were athletes. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9873 "2021-12-03T18:09:41Z")
I like that the parents are being held to account for their own lack of responsibility with respect to gun safety, but unless they broke any specific law they’ll probably walk, and become new heroes to the bloodthirsty gun lunatics in this country. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9874 "2021-12-03T18:27:14Z")
Let’s face it: magazine sizes are just something someone looking for SOME measure to reduce fatalities of shootings came up with. Laudable effort: stupid effects. What you need to do is stop trying to out-anal the gunfetishists and just demand sufficient insurance coverage for every gun and every bullet. Let the insurance companies sort out what the premium for bump stocks/high capacity magazines/rocket launchers should be. Make sure somebody is on the hook for damages EVERY time. If the shooter is dead, the owner is liable, if the owner is unclear, the shop that sold it. if that is unclear go to the manufacturer - of ammo AND weapon (with criminal charges for illegal arms deals if possible). Make the last one in the chain liable for all legal costs: put the burden of proof re provenance on the manufacturer. That will put guns in gun safes with separate ammo lockers so fast it’ll make your head spin. Make the personal responsibility folks own their shit. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9875 "2021-12-03T18:30:06Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > That’s a pretty advanced shot, way beyond the skills of the majority of hunters to do well. I was going to say, “man, that guide is an A-hole”. Never rush a shot; it’s reckless, dangerous and possibly deadly. If we wanted to put it in ‘car terms’ it’s like being in a big muscle car, 4 cars back from a red traffic light, when suddenly the guide in the back seat tells you to “punch it” because the movie starts in 10 minutes. A rushed shot that hits but doesn’t kill makes the animal suffer. A rushed shot that misses is a danger to anyone over the rise behind the deer for a mile and a half. Never rush. If anything, go the other way: use a bipod, use ‘sticks’ to steady the barrel … and wait . You are right: if you have to hunt, it shouldn’t take more than 2 shots to drop the animal. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9876 "2021-12-03T18:33:02Z")
I’m not saying that magazine capacity is the right answer, I’m just using it as an example of a debate we could be having if the other side would be willing to have one rather than just reflexively denying any possibility of the existence of a relationship between guns and innocent people getting shot. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9877 "2021-12-03T19:57:09Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Great! But, the kid will get off with the usual self-defense thing. After all the guys he shot were athletes. Maybe one of the victims\* had a skateboard. Shooter took a gun to school and then was afraid for his life, so he had to shoot them. . . . . \*I forgot- those who are shot by a gunman cannot be called “victims”. We’re supposed to call them “targets” I guess. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9878 "2021-12-03T20:24:58Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > Which basically means that you’re a crappy shooter. And a crappy hunter. Taking potshots at running elk and requiring many rounds is what gives hunters a bad name. I guess it fits perfectly into the “stupid gun news of the day” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9879 "2021-12-03T21:33:57Z")
It’s starting to sound like their actions were more egregious than I thought, i.e., not securing the weapon to prevent the boy from using it without supervision. That would have been bad enough in my eyes. But the dad actually took his son with him to buy it FOR him and didn’t secure it to prevent unsupervised use. The son got caught at school shopping for ammo on his phone and school called the parents but got no response. Then mom texted son and joked about it. Then another teacher found disturbing drawings with gun violence, blood, and “help me.” The school called in the parents and wanted the boy taken off the premises and put in mental health treatment immediately, but they were all “naw” so he stayed at school and murdered four other students later that day. But there shouldn’t be any laws restricting guns!! /s ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9880 "2021-12-03T21:54:11Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > If you need FIVE freakin’ follow up shots to down the animal, you’re either a crappy shooter or you’ve taken on a shot which you weren’t capable to do. Which basically means that you’re a crappy shooter. “A man’s gotta know his limitations” When I hunted whitetail deer I used the same 12 gauge shotgun I used for bird hunting, different shells of course, rifled slugs for deer. I never bothered to take the plug out of the gun, if I couldn’t down a deer with three shots it was irresponsible to start blasting away hoping to hit something. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9881 "2021-12-03T22:12:40Z")
Seems like the Michigan school murderer’s parents aren’t exactly easy to locate… “By mid-afternoon, authorities said they were searching for the couple. Sheriff Mike Bouchard said their attorney had agreed to arrange their arrest if charges were filed but hasn’t been able to reach them. “The action of fleeing and ignoring their attorney certainly adds weight to the charges. They cannot run from their part in this tragedy,” Bouchard said in a written statement. A message seeking comment wasn’t immediately returned by lawyer Shannon Smith.” (Auto playing video at link.) [https://abc7chicago.com/oxford-school-shooting-michigan-shooter-ethan-crumbley/11296940/](https://abc7chicago.com/oxford-school-shooting-michigan-shooter-ethan-crumbley/11296940/) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9882 "2021-12-03T22:27:40Z")
Maybe things will get meta and they’ll be tracked to Brian Laundrie‘s parent’s house. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9883 "2021-12-04T02:39:07Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > Then mom texted son and joked about it. **[She texted](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/parents-michigan-teen-accused-school-shooting-could-face-own-charges-2021-12-03/)** “LOL, I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9884 "2021-12-04T17:32:36Z")
I’m expecting Susan Collins to declare that the Crumbleys have learned their lesson. Surely we can’t call the dead students “victims”. Some of them were willing followers of Al-Gebra. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9885 "2021-12-04T17:35:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Surely we can’t call the dead students “victims”. Some of them were willing followers of Al-Gebra. Al-jabr was invented by Abu Jafar Muhammed ibn Musa so you’re actually not far off. Frankly I’m surprised the far right hasn’t gone off the deep end about our use of Arabic numerals yet. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9886 "2021-12-04T17:54:55Z")
Parents have been found and arrested. The dad shook his head when DA said the gun wasn’t locked up. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/9887 "2021-12-05T10:35:08Z")
13-year-old in Georgia makes ghost guns from kits and sells them to criminals, until he shoots and kills his own sister during a gun sale gone wrong. > **[A 13-year-old boy made and trafficked ‘ghost guns,’ authorities say, and then...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12/03/13-year-old-ghost-gun-trafficker/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebookInvestigators&fb_news_token=cdM2gl6jDVKogj47fVCofQ%3D%3D.D9x66TVuuaX3ABhAupY9pMvnP5IfUjgsyA12GohHnijCjPia48DQV2jtlZSYE4ksTUv%2BTclwRuVRkkIldbfleVzeq63x1OCBVD7uUZM9kvqiJ2xP5oH5ad670B7iBQpf17kKrS%2B7Sku5Yorgfp5JkhOaAJ8vS32WFeXPxnFKHtaaissBVkBsNaVJM5AM16UtZxqPlaX53SfDSIwv0ly76wV3zoxJ3yrwl1xldSAdY9W3JQRv4FwFXPFiC8LCu%2BqTLvHk7k8WtaDKzv3tOyOqvlUmvkhf4iAmRTZt6fXJIIit7ks8WZ0w9t0CdpAhnHd%2F%2B%2FNT%2BrmpA3uZ8tpbBgNOMKN1WrrrtsEGnlwF8LXqbS4%3D)** > > Investigators say they don’t know how long the teen had been making guns and how many of the weapons are in circulation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=493) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=495)