# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/981 "2013-03-08T13:47:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Even the entertainment value is waning for me. I think the guy is mentally challenged, which seriously saps the fun out of it. Hentor are you a teetotaler? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/982 "2013-03-08T13:51:30Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > No, I’m operating under the impression that you at least want to ban “some” guns. It’s easy to identify that type of person because they always go around saying they don’t want to ban “all” guns. And again, you’re reading things that weren’t there. Some day you’ll actually present an argument that addresses something someone actually said. I’m still waffling between you being utterly clueless and just trolling, but mostly because I have a hard time believing someone could actually be that clueless and still remember to breathe. > [@](#): > > “All” respects? You really like to insert those absolute statements into others positions. I guess that makes your straw man arguments easier. Um, you’re the one who made the absolutist statements in the first place. If alcohol and guns are not comparable in at least a significant and relevant way, your argument is rendered stupid. As indeed it has been. > [@](#): > > Sure I understand the difference. Both have pros and cons. The benefits of guns are greater and the cons fewer. You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the matter. Doesn’t make it fact, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/983 "2013-03-08T13:54:57Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > My issue is the conservative view that people should be allowed to own guns without any sort of accountability or responsibility for owning a weapon that was designed for the sole purpose of taking a life. If you fight for the right to own a gun without going through a background check or registration process, then you fight for the right of criminals and the mentally ill to purchase a gun at a trade show or through straw purchases. I disagree. Nobody wants criminals to get guns, unless the criminals were Jews, and this were 1940s Poland, but I digress. Registration however is a step that makes confiscation easier. Gun rights advocates know that gun prohibitionists have and are looking to take gun rights away one step at a time. Those who oppose registration do so, not because registration is bad in and of itself, but because of what it can and has led to. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/984 "2013-03-08T13:56:33Z")
Which is why I’ve been cowering in fear that all the cars I’ve had to register in the last 30 years were going to be confiscated. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/985 "2013-03-08T13:57:48Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Hentor are you a teetotaler? **Kable** , have you moved from your house yet? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/986 "2013-03-08T13:59:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And again, you’re reading things that weren’t there. Some day you’ll actually present an argument that addresses something someone actually said. If I quote an example of my doing so, will you admit you are mistaken? > [@](#): > > Um, you’re the one who made the absolutist statements in the first place. If alcohol and guns are not comparable in at least a significant and relevant way, your argument is rendered stupid. As indeed it has been.You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the matter. Doesn’t make it fact, though. I’m sorry if you don’t have the cognitive faculties to understand the argument or your own hypocrisy. Let me guess, your mother liked alcohol too, and she partied hard while carrying you? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/987 "2013-03-08T14:02:05Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Nobody wants criminals to get guns… You do; you want to protect the right of criminals and the insane to buy guns whenever and wherever they want, with no accountability to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/988 "2013-03-08T14:04:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You do; you want to protect the right of criminals and the insane to buy guns whenever and wherever they want, with no accountability to anyone. Keep telling yourself that. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/989 "2013-03-08T14:06:57Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Which is why I’ve been cowering in fear that all the cars I’ve had to register in the last 30 years were going to be confiscated. I don’t think registration of cars had led to confiscation, and I don’t think anyone would like to confiscate cars, not even fast sports cars. The same can’t be said for guns, but I’m sure you knew that already. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/990 "2013-03-08T14:10:18Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Keep telling yourself that. So you don’t deny it, eh? Proof that it is true! ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/991 "2013-03-08T14:13:12Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I disagree. Nobody wants criminals to get guns, unless the criminals were Jews, and this were 1940s Poland, but I digress. Registration however is a step that makes confiscation easier. Gun rights advocates know that gun prohibitionists have and are looking to take gun rights away one step at a time. Those who oppose registration do so, not because registration is bad in and of itself, but because of what it can and has led to. In fact currently in Minnesota there is opposition to a bill that would require universal background checks simply because it would amount to _de facto_ registration. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/992 "2013-03-08T14:13:45Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Keep telling yourself that. No it’s true. I saw it in this video made using the gun fetishists own words. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/993 "2013-03-08T14:25:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Kable** , have you moved from your house yet? Yes. So are you a teetotaler? ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/994 "2013-03-08T14:25:33Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > This is an interesting debate, and I want to take a step back to share my opinion in more general terms. I think most rational people can agree that there are a myriad of products out there, from guns to automobiles to alcohol, that when abused or mishandled can lead to death. But I’ve always seen an inherent fallacy in comparative statistical analysis between these “weapons” that kill. (Weapons in this case referring to anything that can be determined as a cause of death). The statistics don’t address the underlying reasons why people go out and do stupid things that lead to death, whether it’s driving drunk or using a firearm to commit a crime. I know it’s an overused cliche, but it doesn’t change the fact that people kill people, and guns are just a means to that end. Until the decay in morality, economic opportunities, social inequality, and personal responsibility is addressed, until we can work on a solution that addresses why people feel the need to be violent and irresponsible and generally have no respect for one another, it doesn’t matter what weapons are used to kill one another, imo. People who have that desire or impulse to kill will find a way to achieve their goals. (This argument excludes, to a degree, accidental deaths. There is an argument there as well, but I’ll leave that for another day). My issue with the great gun debate isn’t whether or not people should be allowed to own guns. My issue is the conservative view that people should be allowed to own guns without any sort of accountability or responsibility for owning a weapon that was designed for the sole purpose of taking a life. If you fight for the right to own a gun without going through a background check or registration process, then you fight for the right of criminals and the mentally ill to purchase a gun at a trade show or through straw purchases. I think as long as criminals can get their hands on guns then responsible citizens should be allowed to do the same, but I don’t think that we need to throw our hands up in defeat and say that gun control measures won’t make a significant impact in crime levels and therefore it’s a pointless measure to take. As a society we have a compulsion to see immediate and drastic change, and we look for the quick solution to a problem that has taken generations and decades to develop. We need a long term and comprehensive approach to the general problem of people taking lives with any weapon, and just because gun control isn’t the Great Solution to the problem doesn’t mean it’s an invalid or pointless endeavor. It’s a step, albeit a small one. A tiny stopgap that might save a few lives while we simultaneously focus on the more pervasive and pressing concern of why people need guns in the first place. Hi Tequila That’s an interesting post. On my first day, I took some flack for posting a “wall of text”, and I guess I understand why … it’s harder to read. I tend to type without looking at the screen, and I just forget to indent, or maybe the text box doesn’t like indenting. Anyway, thought I’d hip you to the “skip a line where a paragraph would go” thing. It’ll come up sooner or later, and it’s a handy habit if you want folks to read your posts. On the subject of your post, re: the sentence, “… pervasive and pressing concern of why people need guns in the first place.” I have to ask, why does anyone wishing to own and possess a perfectly legal and constitutionally protected weapon or tool have to justify the reason for owning said weapon or tool? Or maybe a better way to ask the question would be: why is the “need” of a particular person for a gun, as long as it’s purchased and kept in a legal manner, anyone else’s concern? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/995 "2013-03-08T14:26:26Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I don’t think registration of cars had led to confiscation, and I don’t think anyone would like to confiscate cars, not even fast sports cars. The same can’t be said for guns, but I’m sure you knew that already. 🙂 You seem to be saying that you can tell that people want to confiscate guns because they want them to be registered. But then, you just said you didn’t think registering of cars had anything to do with a desire for confiscation. So how do you leap from Registration = Confiscation only for guns and not for every other goddamned thing that get’s registered in some similar way, shape or fashion? I suggest it is merely your own pants-wetting paranoia that leads you to believe this. But I’m sure you know this already\*. \*If you’ve had that phrase trademarked, let me know and I’ll send you a quarter. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/996 "2013-03-08T14:27:08Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Dude, you live in a fantasy land. Are you drunk right now? Yes, which must be very embarrassing for you. Even drunks can make you look like a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/997 "2013-03-08T14:50:51Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > If I quote an example of my doing so, will you admit you are mistaken? Oh heck, I’ll admit it now. I freely accept that there has been at least one instance of you actually responding to a point that a real person has made rather than to an imaginary one no one had made. Happy? > [@](#): > > I’m sorry if you don’t have the cognitive faculties to understand the argument or your own hypocrisy. Let me guess, your mother liked alcohol too, and she partied hard while carrying you? Oh I entirely understand the argument and why you think we’re hypocrites. I also understand why your argument doesn’t work and why you can’t see it. Which is why we’re mocking you. But do keep up the alcohol-themed insults anyway; they’re just as funny the fourth or fifth time around. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/998 "2013-03-08T14:52:19Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You seem to be saying that you can tell that people want to confiscate guns because they want them to be registered. No I didn’t say that. If I recall correctly Damuri Ajashi, thinks guns should be registered and I believe he does not want them confiscated. Others however want them registered and does want them confiscated. The facts are that if they are registered, they are easier to confiscate. Understand? > [@](#): > > But then, you just said you didn’t think registering of cars had anything to do with a desire for confiscation. So how do you leap from Registration = Confiscation only for guns and not for every other goddamned thing that get’s registered in some similar way, shape or fashion? I make that leap by seeing how registration of guns led to confiscated in the past, and by many of you gun prohibitionists admitting that various gun control ordinances won’t do much in and of themselves, but are just a step in the right direction. > [@](#): > > I suggest it is merely your own pants-wetting paranoia that leads you to believe this. But I’m sure you know this already\*. But it’s not paranoia. Gun prohibitionists keep showing their hand. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/999 "2013-03-08T14:56:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh I entirely understand the argument and why you think we’re hypocrites. I also understand why your argument doesn’t work and why you can’t see it. Which is why we’re mocking you. But it does work, and you mock it because that’s the best you can do. I think I’ll start a debate thread on it, to see what you all got. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1000 "2013-03-08T14:57:59Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > No I didn’t say that. But we know that’s what you are thinking. We KNOW! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=51)