# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1021 "2013-03-08T18:54:00Z")
I heard that at least six of the children were suffering from constipation, and instantly cured. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1022 "2013-03-08T19:02:28Z")
Is there anything guns _can’t_ do? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1023 "2013-03-08T19:07:50Z")
Improve cognitive function. Amply demonstrated herein. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1024 "2013-03-08T19:31:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I see gun suicide a little bit like smoking cigarettes. Kill yourself if you want but don’t smoke around me and affect my health. Careful, [second hand smoke](http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/) kills more in the US than drunk driving and guns combined. (Warning CDC study) Kable may add tobacco to his list of things to ban along with guns - or propose some government agency to control all three…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1025 "2013-03-08T19:43:04Z")
Why do people feel that registration will lead to confiscation? It’s a method of accountability, in case a weapon is lost or used in a crime. People have to be just as responsible and accountable for getting perscription medication, from antibiotics to pain killers. It won’t keep drug addicts from getting their hands on illegal pills or other substances, but it’s a small step to help ensure that pharmacies and doctors aren’t out there legally supplying drug addicts with oxy. Yet you don’t had people freaking out that the government is going to confiscate medication, medication that could be dangerous in the wrong hands, because the government has a way to track all legally sold perscription medications. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1026 "2013-03-08T19:54:32Z")
As for my use of the phrase, “the need to have guns in the first place”, I wasn’t talking about explaining to the government that we need guns for sport, collection, or protection. I was talking more about the fact that people in society need guns as a general idea because we are in some modern concept of mutually assured destruction. Taking away guns from average citizens isn’t going to solve the issue of violent crime any more than taking away tanks or RPG’s is going to eliminate war. People will still find a way to wage war, and criminals will still find a way to jack my tv or mug me in the street. So if we want to realistically address the issue of gun control or a repeal of the 2nd Amendment to somehow make a debt in gun deaths or violent crime, we can’t do that until we’ve first addressed the root of crime itself. I live in Texas, a state where we love our guns, and until I have some sort of reasonable expectation that somebody breaking into my house won’t have a gun, I do think we need to be on a level playing field. I think it’s sad I feel this way, however. I used to live in Spain, and I miss living in a society where the worst crime I had to reasonably worry about was a purse snatcher or a gypsy breaking into my car in the middle of the night. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1027 "2013-03-08T19:56:28Z")
Well, tough shit, you live in Texas and have the additional worry that an Aggie will molest your cattle. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1028 "2013-03-08T20:48:23Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > Why do people feel that registration will lead to confiscation? It’s a method of accountability, in case a weapon is lost or used in a crime. It isn’t that registration will lead to confiscation, but that it can; or to put it another way, confiscation wouldn’t have a chance of working unless the government knew where most or all of the guns were, which can’t happen as long as there isn’t universal registration. Most of the pro-gun people I know think registration in and of itself would be fine as a method of accountability. But people who DO want to confiscate and ban guns have been openly crowing about their intentions for years, and gun bans have in fact followed mandatory registration in some states and in places like Britain. Before going along with universal registration, gun owners would want the same level of assurance that their guns would never ever be banned as we currently have that the Joint Chiefs of Staff won’t overthrow the President and establish a junta. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1029 "2013-03-08T21:00:08Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Before going along with universal registration, gun owners would want the same level of assurance that their guns would never ever be banned as we currently have that the Joint Chiefs of Staff won’t overthrow the President and establish a junta. Like, say, a constitutional amendment backed by multiple landmark SCOTUS rulings? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1030 "2013-03-09T01:22:42Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No. Just a moment ago you indicated that you moved from your house because most accidents occurred within 1 mile of it. Oh, you mean my current residence? Be more clear. I’ve lived here for about 10 years. > [@](#): > > You’re a complete moron, and you have no idea whatsoever of the issue of exposure in the evaluation of risk. No, your a moron. Is high school the best you got, or less. And yes, I think I understand risk pretty well, I played poker for a number of years, consistently won too, which isn’t easy. You know risk, reward, probabilities. etc. I got that all down pretty well. If there are any facts you think I have missed, I’d be happy to hear them. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1031 "2013-03-09T01:40:31Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Like, say, a constitutional amendment backed by multiple landmark SCOTUS rulings? Based on what I’ve read on the dope, that’s not enough. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1032 "2013-03-09T03:10:42Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Like, say, a constitutional amendment backed by multiple landmark SCOTUS rulings? Then why are AWBs and magazine limits still being proposed? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1033 "2013-03-09T03:22:18Z")
"Greg Rodriguez, big-game hunting expert and host of TV’s “A Rifleman’s Journal,” has been shot to death. Rodriguez was killed near the resort town of West Glacier, Mont., while visiting a local woman, according to an Associated Press report. Police believe the shooter was the woman’s husband, who later returned to his home and killed himself. Rodriguez, 43, was married with two children." ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1034 "2013-03-09T03:39:49Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > "Greg Rodriguez, big-game hunting expert and host of TV’s “A Rifleman’s Journal,” has been shot to death. For some good news: [Would-Be Robber Shot and Killed By Victim in Miami – NBC 6 South Florida](http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Would-Be-Robber-Shot-and-Killed-By-Victim-in-Miami-195531491.html) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1035 "2013-03-09T04:08:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You keep saying this. What makes them worse? Or more to the point, why do we want issues researched from only one perspective?How well trained do you think the FBI is in conducting science? Yes, I do, but only because of all the caterwauling about the “ban on research into gun violence” when it was just a ban on research by the CDC (and NIH). The NRA was reacting to a perceived bias at the CDC, but what we get are cries that the NRA hates science. Well, the stuff I’ve seen has been published by the research branch of the DoJ, I think their statistical methods are probably just as good as anyone’s, in fact their report is very critical of their own findings and not very supportive of the NRA position, and yet, they weren’t shut down. Why is that? > [@](#): > > This isn’t as categorical an issue as you seem to believe it is. I have a colleague who has appointments in the departments of psychiatry, psychology and epidemiology, and is a senior member of the American Society of Criminology. I have an epidemiologist colleague who used a data set to examine individual and social contextual factors in explaining violence. I used the same data set and similar statistical methods to examine issues related to mental health and other outcomes. I agree that if we are talking about mental health issues, then outfits like the CDC and NIMH are particularly well equipped to study the gun phobia among gun control advocates and the paranoia among gun nuts. But if you want to study the relationship between gun violence and gun ownership, I don’t see what special skill the CDC has that the DoJ does not. > [@](#): > > and how funding impacts ongoing scientific efforts. I think I understand a little bit how funding affects research, I was exposed to it during the stem cell research debate back in the day. The ban on CDC research into gun violence was political payback for an agency that appeared to enter the political field of battle. > [@elucidator](#): > > If a scientist has a bias in advance of his study, that is, if he already believes he is right, he is even more motivated to do the study within strict confines of the rules. He wants to collect totally valid data and number crunch it, with every confidence that the data and the analysis will confirm his opinion. After all, if he thinks he’s right, why would he want to cheat? If he thinks the facts will bear him out, he wants the facts. Or he might be tempted to read the data in the light most favorable to his cause. Try to push the debate in one direction or another. > [@](#): > > And there is nothing wrong with that so long as he plays by the rules. Because if he cheats, he’s gonna get busted for it, this study will be examined quite closely. You can take that to be bank. And in this case he did get busted and the CDC has been paying the price for the last decade and a half. I don’t think they’ll make that mistake again. > [@](#): > > And unless I am very much mistaken, the NRA doesn’t want a study done by the Justice Dept because they are less prejudiced, they want us to rely on a previous study done by them and set it in stone as the final word on the subject. I am open to correction on that if there is evidence. > > IIRC, it wasn’t “Yeah, sure, lets do a brand new study with transparency and clarity. But not the CDC, we don’t trust them, let Justice do it, and we’ll be cool with it.” It was more like stopping any study at all, preferring to rely on what they already have, and claiming it would be a waste of money, because they already have the definitive study, and they like the results. If that were true then why have we been getting a fairly steady trickle of research from the DoJ and the CRS after the shut down the CDC? And I’m not at all sure that all these studies supported the NRA position on things. > [@](#): > > The only problem I can readily see is the problem of defining terms. What is a “defensive gun use”? If you put a sign on your house saying “Break in, and I’ll shoot you!”, and nobody breaks in, does that count? Would it count if you were bluffing, and didn’t really have a gun? > > A study like this can only be truly definitive if there is a consensus in advance of the study that the terms are valid and will produce valid results. To my eye, that is the real problem. I say this keeping in mind that I am a mathtard, and had to take Algebra 1 twice to pass with a “D”. And I had to cheat. The study was poorly conducted but the DoJ is not prohibited from doing something like it again without the problems. The obvious way (to me) would be to ask first about defensive gun use in your lifetime, then defensive gun use in the last year (people are much more likely to be honest about defensive gun use in the last year if they have already had an opportunity to register their defensive gun uses over their whole lifetime). You can certainly fix the definition problem by using broader definitions in the beginning of the survey and using more exacting definitions later in the survey. > [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > Why do people feel that registration will lead to confiscation? It’s a method of accountability, in case a weapon is lost or used in a crime. People have to be just as responsible and accountable for getting perscription medication, from antibiotics to pain killers. It won’t keep drug addicts from getting their hands on illegal pills or other substances, but it’s a small step to help ensure that pharmacies and doctors aren’t out there legally supplying drug addicts with oxy. Yet you don’t had people freaking out that the government is going to confiscate medication, medication that could be dangerous in the wrong hands, because the government has a way to track all legally sold perscription medications. Because it has happened in the past. Not only in places like Pol Pot’s Cambodia but also in places like California. > [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > So if we want to realistically address the issue of gun control or a repeal of the 2nd Amendment to somehow make a debt in gun deaths or violent crime, we can’t do that until we’ve first addressed the root of crime itself. Or you can pass laws that are designed to disarm criminals rather than law abiding citizens. > [@Lumpy](#): > > …and gun bans have in fact followed mandatory registration in some states… They did this in California. > [@](#): > > Before going along with universal registration, gun owners would want the same level of assurance that their guns would never ever be banned as we currently have that the Joint Chiefs of Staff won’t overthrow the President and establish a junta. You are asking for a cultural shift in our democracy that will never happen. People WILL try, but they will never succeed, not at the federal level, not in your grandchildren’s lifetime. If this isn’t enough for you (and I can see why you would be uneasy), what we can do is have the registration self destruct if they pass a law that would use the registration list as the basis of confiscation. > [@steronz](#): > > Like, say, a constitutional amendment backed by multiple landmark SCOTUS rulings? I agree that gun confiscations generally are unconstitutional but several states have done it and gotten away with it. Noone is afraid they will confiscate ALL the guns, they are afraid, that once the licensing and registration works to disarm the criminal population, they will start disarming the civilian population, little by little until the right to bear arms in the US resembles the right to bear arms in Mexico (where they have banned “military style weapons” which means any revolver larger than a 38 special or pistol larger than a 380, any rifle larger than a 22lr or (if a member of a hunting or shooting club) any shotgun large than 12 ga shotgun. Mexico also has a constitutional right to keep and bear arms but the meaning has been stripped from the right so that you can only keep certain arms and you can only bear them in your home or at a shooting club. And they have horrible gun violence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1036 "2013-03-09T06:30:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > …I think I understand a little bit how funding affects research, I was exposed to it during the stem cell research debate back in the day. The ban on CDC research into gun violence was political payback for an agency that appeared to enter the political field of battle…And in this case he did get busted and the CDC has been paying the price for the last decade and a half. I don’t think they’ll make that mistake again… Excuse me, but says who? Who says the CDC work was biased and flawed? The NRA? Besides their discomfort with the results, what is their proof? Does the scientific community and statistical academics wholly agree with that NRA position, roundly condemning the poor work of the CDC? I had not heard this, perhaps you’ll clarify You state this so matter of factly, as if its something that everybody knows and nobody questions, I’m duty bound to question. Says who? ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1037 "2013-03-09T06:40:07Z")
I know California just approved a measure to confiscate legally obtained weapons from people who have since been disqualified from owning such weapons, such as people who landed a criminal record or were declared mentally ill. Imo these ARE measures to keep guns out of the hands of potentially dangerous people. But if a state passes laws arbitrarily confiscating weapons from law abiding and mentally sound citizens, the Supreme Court thus far has upheld a persons’s right to bear arms, most recently in the 2010 case of McDonald v Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1038 "2013-03-09T06:51:40Z")
As for the correlation between gun violence, restrictive bans on weapons, and the failure of such bans to lower the rate of gun related violence, I often hear people discuss Chicago. They point out that Chicago has had some of the most severe restrictions on gun ownership in the country, yet the rate of violence in that city is one of the highest in the nation. But Chicago is the perfect example of what I’ve been trying to say all along, that the root of violence can’t or shouldn’t be measured in terms of who has guns or the measures the local government has taken to restrict gun ownership. 2/3 of the violent crime and gun related deaths in Chicago occur in the poor neighborhoods that have the higest level of people living in poverty, unemployment, and lack of education and resources. It’s one of the most segregated cities in the nation. There is a deep social, cultural, and economic divide in that city. So trying to ban people overall from owning assault weapons or other measures to restrict gun ownership doesn’t address the disease. It’s only trying to address a symptom of a much more serious and pervasive disease, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1039 "2013-03-09T12:29:22Z")
[Officer Who Fired Shot In New York High School Suspended](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/sean-mccutcheon-officer-gun-suspended.php?ref=fpb) > [@](#): > > A New York town that began assigning an armed police officer to guard a high school in the wake of the Connecticut massacre has suspended the program after an officer accidentally discharged his pistol in a hallway while classes were in session. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1040 "2013-03-09T12:48:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I agree that gun confiscations generally are unconstitutional but several states have done it and gotten away with it. Noone is afraid they will confiscate ALL the guns, they are afraid, that once the licensing and registration works to disarm the criminal population, they will start disarming the civilian population, little by little until the right to bear arms in the US resembles the right to bear arms in Mexico (where they have banned “military style weapons” which means any revolver larger than a 38 special or pistol larger than a 380, any rifle larger than a 22lr or (if a member of a hunting or shooting club) any shotgun large than 12 ga shotgun. > > Mexico also has a constitutional right to keep and bear arms but the meaning has been stripped from the right so that you can only keep certain arms and you can only bear them in your home or at a shooting club. And they have horrible gun violence. THIS! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=53)