# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1101 "2013-03-11T18:52:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not conservative (at least I don’t think so), I am pro-bill of rights and anti- crime. My acid test for whether a rule is good or bad (once it has passed constitutional muster) is if criminals will like the rule or be indifferent. What about expansive views of the first and fifth amendments? They protect criminals along with the law abiding. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1102 "2013-03-11T19:03:08Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Jesus Christ! I even pulled this line out and quoted it above. > So, again, when you said that I was easily fooled because the article was talking about 2010 data, you were clearly, obviously and stupidly wrong. Na, your data found pretty much the same as my data. They are just in denial about it. > [@](#): > > Next, the article specifically, explicitly, undeniably, incontrovertibly says that the researchers found the difference between 34 and 32 percent, over the past two years, to be not statistically significant. They should have taken a larger sample, then it would have been significant. The raw numbers do agree with Gallup. Gun ownership is on the rise. Do you really deny this? Why do yo think the gun shops are all empty? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1103 "2013-03-11T19:04:59Z")
More bad luck when trying to think… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1104 "2013-03-11T19:17:48Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Na, your data found pretty much the same as my data. They are just in denial about it. Are you really asserting that the authors are in denial as to when exactly they conducted their survey? Uh, dummy, that wouldn’t be denial, that would be fraud. > [@](#): > > They should have taken a larger sample, then it would have been significant. For fun, why don’t you tell me what the statistical power in their survey was. > [@](#): > > The raw numbers do agree with Gallup. Gun ownership is on the rise. Do you really deny this? Really? Are you saying that Gallup found that 34% of households had a firearm in the home? I’d suggest that you try to think real hard before answering this one. > [@](#): > > Why do yo think the gun shops are all empty? You don’t seem to be able to understand the difference between number of firearms owned by individuals and number of households with a firearm in them. That’s a pretty crucial piece of this puzzler to get a good, firm conceptual hold on. Again, my advice to you is to step back and think real hard before responding, even if it hurts a little or even if it is kind of boring. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1105 "2013-03-11T19:28:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Are you really asserting that the authors are in denial as to when exactly they conducted their survey? Uh, dummy, that wouldn’t be denial, that would be fraud. It happens all the time. So does selective publication. > [@](#): > > For fun, why don’t you tell me what the statistical power in their survey was. Less than it would be with more subjects. > [@](#): > > Are you saying that Gallup found that 34% of households had a firearm in the home? No you should read the Gallup study for yourself, I’ve linked it several times. Both studies found gun ownership on the rise. Correct? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1106 "2013-03-11T19:35:19Z")
Sorry, at this point I’m feeling like a bully with a 98 pound weakling. It’s not you, it’s me. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1107 "2013-03-11T19:40:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Sorry, at this point I’m feeling like a bully with a 98 pound weakling. You have been delusional for a long time. It’s OK for you to admit that your stats don’t say what you think, really it is. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1108 "2013-03-11T19:43:07Z")
My favorite is the second graph from the top. > **[Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993](https://news.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx)** > > Forty-seven percent of American adults currently report that they have a gun in their home or elsewhere on their property. This is up from 41% a year ago and is the highest Gallup has recorded since 1993. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1109 "2013-03-11T19:52:22Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Na, your data found pretty much the same as my data. They are just in denial about it. > They should have taken a larger sample, then it would have been significant. The raw numbers do agree with Gallup. Gun ownership is on the rise. Do you really deny this? Why do yo think the gun shops are all empty? At first I thought you were kidding around. But now it is obvious – you really don’t understand what “not statistically significant” means. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1110 "2013-03-11T19:52:55Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > The argument isn’t that it would happen but rather they would try. I bet it won’t happen either because you gun prohibitionists have already lost the initiative, which I said already. The dems made the push right after the 2nd election however just like the NRA said they would. Well, then, what was the point of bringing it up? Were you just trying to get a rise out of somebody or what? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1111 "2013-03-11T20:13:04Z")
I wonder if the overall drop in armed households is due mostly to urbanization and decreased hunting- meaning fewer sporting guns- with the number possessing handguns and other tactical defense weapons sharply up. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1112 "2013-03-11T21:23:07Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > At first I thought you were kidding around. But now it is obvious – you really don’t understand what “not statistically significant” means. No, I know what it means. It means is the change big or not big enough that it is likely not due to chance at a given level. P value being set at .05 or 01 or whatever arbitrary amount. I don’t see Hentor’s study giving a P value at all, but since it confirms an increase in ownership just like the Gallup study I think it would be irrational to assume it’s just statistical noise. If the times found ownership went down rather than up 2 points, I’m pretty sure they would have found a way to conclude it was significant. Yes, I went to college, and yes I got an A in statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1113 "2013-03-11T21:45:20Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I wonder if the overall drop in armed households is due mostly to urbanization and decreased hunting- meaning fewer sporting guns- with the number possessing handguns and other tactical defense weapons sharply up. That’s part of the suggested reasons. Another explanation is the increase in female headed households over the years, with women just recently increasing in their ownership of firearms themselves. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1114 "2013-03-12T00:29:51Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > No, I know what it means. It means is the change big or not big enough that it is likely not due to chance at a given level. P value being set at .05 or 01 or whatever arbitrary amount. I don’t see Hentor’s study giving a P value at all, but since it confirms an increase in ownership just like the Gallup study I think it would be irrational to assume it’s just statistical noise. If the times found ownership went down rather than up 2 points, I’m pretty sure they would have found a way to conclude it was significant. > > Yes, I went to college, and yes I got an A in statistics. I’m not looking to insult you, but surely you must realize – it is the authors of the survey, not you, who are in a position to expound upon the statistical validity of their results. And their statement is that the year to year difference “isn’t statistically significant”. They don’t tell you what ‘p’ value they chose, nor what standard deviation was calculated. In fact, they tell you nothing about the statistical limitations of their results – except to declare that the difference “isn’t statistically significant”. Yet you, secure in your presumptions, holding fast to a world view wherein facts shall not sway you from a higher truth, deign to tell them and us that their opinion of their own survey is wrong. Tell me, are they brass? I’m just curious, is all. Must be uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1115 "2013-03-12T00:35:13Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > They don’t tell you what ‘p’ value they chose, nor what standard deviation was calculated. In fact, they tell you nothing about the statistical limitations of their results – except to declare that the difference “isn’t statistically significant”. That’s all pretty strong evidence in favor of bullshit don’t you think? A good study/article would be very transparent regarding all that. No charge for the lesson.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1116 "2013-03-12T00:41:19Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > That’s all pretty strong evidence in favor of bullshit don’t you think? A good study/article would be very transparent regarding all that. > > No charge for the lesson.🙂 Did you just dismiss your own cite? Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1117 "2013-03-12T00:47:44Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Did you just dismiss your own cite? Awesome. Of course not. Gallup gives their confidence interval. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1118 "2013-03-12T00:52:09Z")
Hey, only the stupid parts! The rest of it is ok, just cut out the dumb stuff that’s wrong. It’s like that Japanese delicacy, the _tofu_ fish, which has parts of it that are deadly poison and will kill you, but the rest is just fish. Which is why they are so very careful to always get the fatal bits out before somebody eats it. Almost always. Usually. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1119 "2013-03-12T01:53:28Z")
More zero-[del]intelligence[/del]tolerance schooling: School nixes toy-soldier decorated cupcakes: > **[Censored cupcakes: US school removed toy soldiers from kid’s birthday cake...](https://www.rt.com/usa/toy-soldiers-censored-cupcakes-034/)** > > Toy soldiers featured on birthday cupcakes of a nine-year-old US boy have spoiled the appetite of school officials at a Michigan elementary school, whose staff said the cakes were inappropriate in the wake of the Sandy Hook school shooting. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1120 "2013-03-12T02:24:24Z")
Did they at least get to eat the cupcakes after the choking hazards were discarded? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=57)