# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1401 "2013-04-01T20:10:18Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > But everyone knows that guns really do offer protection, which my video proves beyond a shadow of a doubt. I find it… unpersuasive. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1402 "2013-04-01T21:15:51Z")
What? He posted a YouTube video! That’s it, the question is settled! You guys set some pretty high standards for proof, when you won’t accept authority like that! **Kable** , you are now entitled to end your posts with “Winning!” Doper tradition reserves that honor for those who stand alone against insurmountable odds and soundly defeat all argument with rhetorical brilliance and unshakeable resolve. Let the word go forth, than henceforth, this date shall be known as **Kable** Day! So let it be written, so let it be done. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1403 "2013-04-01T21:32:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I find it… unpersuasive. Obviously. You’re closed to all outside information, that’s what it means to be brainwashed. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1404 "2013-04-01T21:35:35Z")
Takes one to know one. Neener-neener. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1405 "2013-04-01T22:34:08Z")
[**Shooting at tavern in Washington leaves 3 men dead, 1 wounded**](http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/shooting_at_tavern_in_washingt.html) > [@](#): > > SEATTLE — Three men were killed and another man was wounded early Sunday when a brawl led to gunfire outside a tavern, police said. > > Auburn Police Cmdr. Mike Hirman said dozens of people were leaving the Sports Page Tavern in Auburn, which is about 30 miles south of Seattle, at closing time around 2 a.m. when two groups began fighting in the parking lot. > > He said several people pulled handguns and fired shots, and three men were killed. A fourth man suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was in stable condition at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, Hirman said late Sunday. The ages of the four run between 21 and 32. > > Problems between two groups, one celebrating a birthday, started inside the tavern when two women had a disagreement. > > “The dispute started between two women when one of them danced with a man,” Hirman said in a statement late Sunday night. > > Hirman said some of the victims and suspects knew each other. The identities of the victims would not be released until Monday afternoon at the earliest, a spokeswoman with the King County Medical Examiner’s Office said… > > \ > > Police have recovered several handguns. They believe several different firearms were used based on shell casings recovered from the scene. Now see? If only someone there had had a gun to ‘defend’ himself and the others with, nothing would have happ…oh, wait! They _all_ had guns! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1406 "2013-04-01T23:15:03Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [**Shooting at tavern in Washington leaves 3 men dead, 1 wounded**](http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/shooting_at_tavern_in_washingt.html) > > Now see? If only someone there had had a gun to ‘defend’ himself and the others with, nothing would have happ…oh, wait! They _all_ had guns! :smack: 1. Even I, a pro-gun person, concede that alcohol and guns make a very poor mix. 2. Were the people involved part of a “respect” culture in which any insult has to met with violence? Some people haven’t learned that an armed society _ **needs** _ to be a polite society. 3. We’ll have to see, but maybe the dead include the people who initiated the violence. In which case maybe whoever shot them really was defending themselves. ETA: 4. If this had happened in Chicago or DC where no one can legally carry a gun to begin with, what remedy would you suggest? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1407 "2013-04-01T23:48:45Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > 1. Even I, a pro-gun person, concede that alcohol and guns make a very poor mix. Well, that must have taken some guts to say. Let me ask _you_…how do you stop that from happening under most current laws. Go into the bar, cleared of guns, yet you keep them in your car. Does that _work_? > [@](#): > > 1. Were the people involved part of a “respect” culture in which any insult has to met with violence? Some people haven’t learned that an armed society _ **needs** _ to be a polite society. So, let me get this straight. Gun owners need to be “polite”? Exactly how do you do that, when you can buy a gun in the US easier than a car? Slight hyperbole, but only just. Besides, all societies need be “polite.” I think that goes w/out saying unless you’re in Somalia. > [@](#): > > 1. We’ll have to see, but maybe the dead include the people who initiated the violence. In which case maybe whoever shot them really was defending themselves. Dead is dead. Over total bullshit. “You danced with my friend” vs “Oh yeah, bitch _danced with me_.” Ridiculous. > [@](#): > > ETA: 4. If this had happened in Chicago or DC where no one can legally carry a gun to begin with, what remedy would you suggest? How about obeying the law and coming off bullshit such as this this with, at worse, a broken knuckle or a black eye? Eventually, fights w/out guns get broken-up. Happened to me in college more than thrice & and I am still here to tell about it. Deviated septum and all. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1408 "2013-04-02T00:01:16Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > What you didn’t read the title of you own article? > > “Guns don’t offer protection – whatever the National Rifle Association says > The insistence that guns protect people from rape and violence is not rooted in scientific reality” > > But everyone knows that guns really do offer protection, which my video proves beyond a shadow of a doubt. “The researchers … found that those with firearms were about 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those who did not carry…” Hmm. That’s some sorry assed protection. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1409 "2013-04-02T00:04:05Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [**Shooting at tavern in Washington leaves 3 men dead, 1 wounded**](http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/shooting_at_tavern_in_washingt.html) > > Now see? If only someone there had had a gun to ‘defend’ himself and the others with, nothing would have happ…oh, wait! They _all_ had guns! :smack: When everyone is armed, then all minor drunker bar disputes can be settled permanently in the parking lot. That’s what the gun nuts want: Wild West type shootouts on every corner. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1410 "2013-04-02T00:06:53Z")
Some good gun news for a change of pace: Source: USA Today Connecticut lawmakers announced a deal Monday on what they called some of the toughest gun laws in the country that were proposed after the December mass shooting in the state, including a ban on new high-capacity ammunition magazines like the one in the massacre that left 20 children and six educators dead. The proposal also called for background checks for private gun sales and a new registry for existing magazines that carry 10 or more bullets, something of a compromise for parents of Newtown victims who had wanted an outright ban on them, while legislators had proposed grandfathering them into the law. The package also creates what lawmakers said is the nation’s first statewide dangerous weapon offender registry, immediate universal background checks for all firearms sales and expansion of Connecticut’s assault weapons ban. A new state-issued eligibility certificate would be needed to purchase any rifle, shotgun or ammunition under the legislation. To get the certificate, a buyer would need to be fingerprinted, take a firearms training course and undergo a national criminal background check and involuntary commitment or voluntary admission check. > **[Conn. reaches deal on tough gun laws](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/01/connecticut-gun-laws-deal/2044167/)** > > Package creates a dangerous weapon offender registry, universal background checks and expansion of Connecticut's assault weapons ban. The home of the NRA, too! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1411 "2013-04-02T00:25:43Z")
Huh. Doesn’t seem to be an April Fool, either. > [@](#): > > “How will they register a magazine? It seems a little weird,” he said. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1412 "2013-04-02T00:39:45Z")
> [@](#): > > …Some people haven’t learned that an armed society needs to be a polite society… Protocol and respectful gestures motivated by fear is leaden, joyless, and empty. Its like a gift wrapped box with a rattlesnake inside. I used to hear stuff like that down home in Texas, when I didn’t know any better. Got over it. Sooner or later, so will they. These days I live in Minnesota, sometimes in a bar with a hundred people it occurs to me that fewer than three people are likely armed. I find that rather soothing. And if they are ruder and rowdier than they are in Waco, its news to me. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1413 "2013-04-02T01:44:16Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > So, let me get this straight. Gun owners need to be “polite”? Exactly how do you do that, when you can buy a gun in the US easier than a car? Slight hyperbole, but only just. Besides, all societies need be “polite.” I think that goes w/out saying unless you’re in Somalia. > > How about obeying the law and coming off bullshit such as this this with, at worse, a broken knuckle or a black eye? Eventually, fights w/out guns get broken-up. Happened to me in college more than thrice & and I am still here to tell about it. Deviated septum and all. > [@Ca3799](#): > > When everyone is armed, then all minor drunker bar disputes can be settled permanently in the parking lot. That’s what the gun nuts want: Wild West type shootouts on every corner. > [@elucidator](#): > > Protocol and respectful gestures motivated by fear is leaden, joyless, and empty. Its like a gift wrapped box with a rattlesnake inside. > > I used to hear stuff like that down home in Texas, when I didn’t know any better. Got over it. Sooner or later, so will they. These days I live in Minnesota, sometimes in a bar with a hundred people it occurs to me that fewer than three people are likely armed. I find that rather soothing. And if they are ruder and rowdier than they are in Waco, its news to me. Until comparatively recently people instinctively believed that the way to win a fight was to be more aggressive with a better weapon, because that was what had worked since the first ape-man picked up a thighbone and brained someone with it. But multishot firearms, beginning in the late 1850s changed that. Multishot firearms weren’t just a difference of degree, they were a difference in kind. When a milquetoast with a .45 can kill the biggest badass in town, the rules of conflict changed. When both parties in a dispute are armed with guns, you don’t “win” a fight- let alone an argument- with a gun anymore than you win a war fought with nuclear weapons. But ingrained attitudes are slow to change. Too many people erroneously think that a gun is a means of commanding instant respect, or a license to be arrogant. Guns place an **extreme** premium on personal responsibility and people who never learned that or who forget it under the influence of alcohol quite often come to grief with them. When I took the course required in my state to get a carry permit, the instructor had rule #1 which I have taken to heart: “When you carry a gun, treat everyone else like they are carrying a gun”. That means no mouthing off, no escalating, no thinking a gun will do what your fists couldn’t. A gun is for staying out of fights, not winning them. And the law at least here strongly expects permit holders to stay out of trouble. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1414 "2013-04-02T02:02:15Z")
Sounds like very evolved people, a blessing to the community, to be sure. They are all like this, paragons of civic virtue? Your instructors words are wise, do they always fall on receptive ears? Have you ever met some other CCW and thought “This guy is wrapped too tight for Minnesota”? You can ensure politeness with fear, and you can buy friends with money. In either case, you get pretty much what you deserve. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1415 "2013-04-02T02:40:35Z")
Well, Mister Rogers was wound too tight for Minnesota, so I can’t imagine anyone in that class passing that test. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1416 "2013-04-02T02:46:58Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [**Shooting at tavern in Washington leaves 3 men dead, 1 wounded**](http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/shooting_at_tavern_in_washingt.html) > > Now see? If only someone there had had a gun to ‘defend’ himself and the others with, nothing would have happ…oh, wait! They _all_ had guns! :smack: The solution is pretty clear here; They should have had _more_ guns. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1417 "2013-04-02T02:55:50Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Well, Mister Rogers was wound too tight for Minnesota, so I can’t imagine anyone in that class passing that test. Minnesotans don’t much care for his sort of cynical, droll post-modernist irony. Lots of Lutherans. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1418 "2013-04-02T03:07:31Z")
Lutherans are boring, so I hang out with them because they make me seem cool by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1419 "2013-04-02T03:20:00Z")
About self-defense. Isn’t that what cops are for? Isn’t that why we have them, to defend ourselves? Doesn’t that reflect the meaning of the 2nd Amendment, a well regulated force? They can’t really do their jobs without having the option of lethal force. And we accept that, given whatever degree of training and vetting we deem appropriate. A bail bondsman, sure, they are empowered to arrest, pretty much have to go with that. Professional bodyguards? Don’t know, getting kinda close to the line, there. Fred from Accounting? Why? Why should I be asked to entrust Fred from Accounting the same lethal force I grant policemen? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1420 "2013-04-02T03:32:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Fred from Accounting? Why? Why should I be asked to entrust Fred from Accounting the same lethal force I grant policemen? Because Fred goes to the bathroom at exactly 10:05 am each day. Like clockwork. He’s well regulated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=70) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=72)