# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1441 "2013-04-03T02:06:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > …I actually fondle my gun, I oil it up and I fondle it… Dude, some things are TMI even for The Pit. Just sayin’ _:::fuckin’ gross:::_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1442 "2013-04-03T04:43:10Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > …And again, the baseless accusation that gun owners are motivated by fear. I **do** trust people I don’t know, including the strangers at the corner with the convenience store and bus stop where a robbery or assault is recorded at least a couple of times a month. I understand that 99+% of the people I encounter there are ordinary Joes who mean me no harm. My concealed handgun is the insurance against the day I might get unlucky. It’s because of it that I can _afford_ to presume that the strangers around me are probably decent people… There is a kind of reasoning here that glimmers and shines like the rainbows the float on oily water. You assure of us your trust in others, and further assure us that this happy fact is a direct result of your preparation and willingness to shoot them. And you mean this sincerely, without so much as a hint of irony. As baffling as I find it, I believe you. How do you see the tactics of the situation? Your weapon is holstered, how much warning do you expect to get? You get to say “King’s X, put your gun back and then we count three, and then we start punching holes into each other…Ready?..” (As I said, I’ve been robbed at gunpoint. Shit happens, mostly to me. When the cop asked me what he looked like, I realized I had never actually looked at his face, I spent all my attention on that goddam gun. Looking back, almost certainly a cheap shit .25 automatic, but one oddly fitted out with a .99 caliber barrel. I know, because I looked straight down it. Maybe an anti-aircraft barrel, big sumbitch…) Of course, I don’t know much about it outside of my own limited experience. Maybe its common for armed muggers to alert you of their intentions, perhaps as a sort of fair play sportsmanlike behavior. I would be very surprised to hear it, but confess I don’t have any authoritative knowledge. > [@](#): > > …I’m sorry you can’t trust yourself to carry a gun. But I think the truck driver in question would have been entitled kill rather than be killed himself. **Lumpy** , I’m a good guy, I wear the white hat, and it ain’t a disguise. I am blessed with the calm temperament and sweet reason for which native Texans are so widely admired. And maybe I might consider myself trustworthy enough to carry, though I’d rather have a gila monster in my pocket than a pistol. Damn sight cuter. But I’m not that sure. Its a civic duty, a collective responsibility. Telling myself I am responsible enough to carry lethal force is a level of arrogance even I find forbidding. And you? You’ve met some other folks with CCW? Did you invariably think they were the very paragons of responsibility and sober restraint. (Might have to adjust the calibration there, you’re likely talking about Minnesotans…) Are they all as calm, intelligent and reasonable as you? Never met one that gave you a shiver of doubt? You probably stand at very similar bus stops to me, you look around at the cluster of lumpennorth and think “What a swell thing it would be if more of these people were armed!” Well, lets just agree to disagree, and I’ll back away slowly. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1443 "2013-04-03T06:21:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Post a YouTube video of it. Proves about as much as taking the wildest possible example and pretending it applies to everyday life. > > You see the one where the guy pulled the truck driver out of his truck and then another guy dropped a big ass rock on his head and did a victory boogie? What I realized when I saw that is that, had I been armed, I would have shot that man. > > But that’s not my call to make. I don’t pretend to be entitled to carry lethal force, I don’t pretend I am entitled to kill. How about you? I believe that I am entitled to kill in some circumstances. Self defense is one of them. > [@jasg](#): > > Serious question. Can you explain why this is so? Because guns are lethal. They are an effective form of suicide, claiming almost 20k successful suicides per year. There are an additional 12k gun homocides every year. > [@elucidator](#): > > Are they all as calm, intelligent and reasonable as you? Never met one that gave you a shiver of doubt? You probably stand at very similar bus stops to me, you look around at the cluster of lumpennorth and think “What a swell thing it would be if more of these people were armed!” Ive had shivers of doubt about some cops and soldiers too but the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of gun homocides are committed by people who are not legally allowed to have one, either because they are a felon or wife beater. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1444 "2013-04-03T06:52:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I believe that I am entitled to kill in some circumstances. Self defense is one of them. … You keep saying that like you’re playing the ace of trumps. Has anyone yet denied the right to self defense? The question is more about making that decision _in advance_, anticipating the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1445 "2013-04-03T13:58:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There is a kind of reasoning here that glimmers and shines like the rainbows the float on oily water. You assure of us your trust in others, and further assure us that this happy fact is a direct result of your preparation and willingness to shoot them. And you mean this sincerely, without so much as a hint of irony. As baffling as I find it, I believe you. Then I’m not sure we mean the same thing by the word “trust”. How do you define it? I used it to mean the statistical likelihood that almost all of the strangers I meet in public are decent and law-abiding; and that I’m prepared for the rare possibility that they aren’t, so I don’t have to presume the worst about everyone. > [@](#): > > How do you see the tactics of the situation? Your weapon is holstered, how much warning do you expect to get? You get to say “King’s X, put your gun back and then we count three, and then we start punching holes into each other…Ready?..” Suddenly and unexpectedly having a gun stuck in your face is a bad position to be in, no doubt. Which is why situational awareness is important. > [@](#): > > Telling myself I am responsible enough to carry lethal force is a level of arrogance even I find forbidding. How responsible is responsible enough? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1446 "2013-04-03T14:28:21Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > …and that I’m prepared for the rare possibility that they aren’t, so I don’t have to presume the worst about everyone… You don’t “have to”. You do it for reasons of your own, reasons you may well insist are a reasonable response to living in the mild mild Midwest. I don’t. Do you think that my being an extraordinarily handsome devil gives me some advantage? Or perhaps they can detect the fact that I am a master of Cringing Mantis Kung Pao? > [@](#): > > …Suddenly and unexpectedly having a gun stuck in your face is a bad position to be in, no doubt. Which is why situational awareness is important… A little fuzzy on this whole “situational awareness” thing, here. I admit, it does sound important, but I am not sure precisely what it means. Heavens! Just realized I don’t have much situational awareness at all, beyond “Is the bus late, or am I early?”. Man, lucky to be alive, I guess, huh? Is it “suspicious characters”? Some clue in manner or deportment? How do you calibrate this “awareness”? Is there a point at which you have too much “situational awareness”? If you do, how do you dial it back down? > [@](#): > > …How responsible is responsible enough? Hell, son, you tell me! You’re the one that’s packing heat. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1447 "2013-04-03T15:12:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Telling myself I am responsible enough to carry lethal force is a level of arrogance even I find forbidding. > [@Lumpy](#): > > How responsible is responsible enough? > [@elucidator](#): > > Hell, son, you tell me! You’re the one that’s packing heat. Someone- if only the police- has to carry guns. If you’re ok with that then presumably you think they’re responsible enough. Which is what in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1448 "2013-04-03T15:27:21Z")
Not a bad evasion, just not very artful. The old “answer a question with a question” _schtick_ is kinda dated, don’t you think? But OK, start with training. According to this, a trainee police officer gets “14-16 weeks” of Academy training, followed by an additional five months field training. I don’t know what is required for your CCW, but I expect you do. > **[Police jobs](https://www.minneapolismn.gov/government/jobs/police-jobs/)** > > We explain how you can become a Minneapolis police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1449 "2013-04-03T18:43:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You keep saying that like you’re playing the ace of trumps. Has anyone yet denied the right to self defense? The question is more about making that decision _in advance_, anticipating the situation. Your point (I thought) was that you shouldn’t have the ability to kill because you don’t think you have the right to kill. I disagreed, I think you have the right to kill in some circumstances. Its not like we give the police license to kill, they have broader authority under their police powers but they can’t shoot a suspect just because the suspect is outrunning them and might get away. Their ability to use lethal force is also limited. Are you saying that I have the right to self defense but I should wait until I am actually under threat before I find a way to defend myself with lethal force? We are stuck with guns in this society and so unless you see the repeal of the second amendment on the horizon, our efforts should be towards reducing gun deaths and next to arming all the kindergarten principals, an AWB is about the dumbest way of trying to achieve that goal. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1450 "2013-04-03T18:45:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The old “answer a question with a question” _schtick_ is kinda dated, don’t you think? Why would anyone think _that_? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1451 "2013-04-03T19:30:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not a bad evasion, just not very artful. The old “answer a question with a question” _schtick_ is kinda dated, don’t you think? I asked a question. You replied with “you tell me”. So I clarified my previous question. Now you’re somehow claiming that **I’m** the one evading a question. :dubious: > [@](#): > > But OK, start with training. According to this, a trainee police officer gets “14-16 weeks” of Academy training, followed by an additional five months field training. I don’t know what is required for your CCW, but I expect you do. > > [http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/recruiting/reqs/police\_recruiting\_academy](http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/recruiting/reqs/police_recruiting_academy) How much of that time is spent on learning to use firearms and under what circumstances they should and should not be used? As opposed to everything else a police officer needs to know that is not firearms-related. I would say that anyone who has qualified for a carry permit and taken a couple of tactical defense classes is as prepared to make the legal and moral choice of whether or not to use a gun as your average police officer. BTW: Dirty Harry “packs heat”. I carry a firearm. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1452 "2013-04-03T20:42:13Z")
Except I have to have armed police officers. Whether I trust them or no, have to have them. I have to have you? For what? Because you say so? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1453 "2013-04-03T20:55:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Except I have to have armed police officers. Whether I trust them or no, have to have them. I have to have you? For what? Because you say so? Now who doesn’t trust people? 😛 Ok, so you’re saying that police are a necessary evil. Question answered. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1454 "2013-04-03T20:57:12Z")
If you can twist balloons like you can twist words, you would make a good kid’s party clown. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1455 "2013-04-03T21:31:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I asked a question. You replied with “you tell me”. So I clarified my previous question. Now you’re somehow claiming that **I’m** the one evading a question. :dubious: > > How much of that time is spent on learning to use firearms and under what circumstances they should and should not be used? As opposed to everything else a police officer needs to know that is not firearms-related. I would say that anyone who has qualified for a carry permit and taken a couple of tactical defense classes is as prepared to make the legal and moral choice of whether or not to use a gun as your average police officer. > > BTW: Dirty Harry “packs heat”. I carry a firearm. IIRC NYC cops are only required to fire 150 rounds at the range every year plus go through some firearm obstacle courses. I remember thinking “I fired more rounds over the weekend” that says little about safety, etc. but it doesn’t mean they’re particularly good shots. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1456 "2013-04-04T16:01:46Z")
Colorado Congresswoman Diana DeGette, who has “been working on a high-capacity assault magazine ban for years and has been deeply involved in the issue” made the following statement: > [@](#): > > “These are ammunition, they’re bullets, so the people who have those now, they’re going to shoot them, so if you ban them in the future, the number of these high-capacity magazines is going to decrease dramatically over time because the bullets will have been shot and there won’t be any more available,” From [here.](http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_22942476/degette-draws-criticism-pretty-stupid-ammo-magazine-comment) IMHO, this goes way beyond the misuse of magazine/clip that is so often a distraction in gun debates. She really seems to not understand what a high-capacity magazine is or how banning them would lead to a reduction in gun violence. Her spokesperson’s clarification wasn’t much better. > [@](#): > > “she simply misspoke in referring to ‘magazines’ when she should have referred to ‘clips,’ which cannot be reused because they don’t have a feeding mechanism,” Johnson said. Clips can’t be reused? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1457 "2013-04-04T18:32:37Z")
More not so stupid gun news: "The Maryland House of Delegates has approved a gun-control measure proposed by Democratic Gov. Martin O’Malley by a vote of 78-61. It has a number of differences from a measure the Senate passed more than a month ago. The two chambers will have to work out the differences before the General Assembly adjourns at midnight Monday. Still, the two House and Senate are largely in agreement on the major parts of the bill. They include a fingerprinting requirement to get a license for handguns and an assault weapons ban. The legislation also would limit magazines to 10 bullets. " > **[Md. House Passes Gun Control Bill, 78-61](https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/maryland-house-set-to-vote-on-gun-control/)** > > Big changes may be ahead for Maryland gun owners. The House of Delegates has passed a bill that would give Maryland some of the strictest gun laws in the country. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1458 "2013-04-04T20:07:05Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Colorado Congresswoman Diana DeGette, who has “been working on a high-capacity assault magazine ban for years and has been deeply involved in the issue” made the following statement: From [here.](http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_22942476/degette-draws-criticism-pretty-stupid-ammo-magazine-comment) > IMHO, this goes way beyond the misuse of magazine/clip that is so often a distraction in gun debates. She really seems to not understand what a high-capacity magazine is or how banning them would lead to a reduction in gun violence. > > Her spokesperson’s clarification wasn’t much better. Clips can’t be reused? Huh? :smack::smack::smack: I understand they are trying to undermine the most basic argument against a magazine cap. There are already so many of them out there that banning the further sales of magazines is stupid. I have more P-mags than I have bullets for at the moment. I don’t know how I accumulated them, I remember buying one or two here and there and suddenly I have a couple of dozen (they cost about $10-$15 and I got a lot of them for free). For a few weeks in January, they were going for $100 each and selling out at those prices. The gun control nuts must understand by now that bans without confiscation achieves little to nothing considering how many are already out there. It is a lot like closing the barn door after the horses are already out. It achieves very little unless you go out there and round up the horses. If the gun control nuts weren’t so irrational, they would push for licensing and registration. Something that enjoys a lot of popular support, is clearly within the bounds of the constitution, and would be vastly more effective in reducing gun violence than an AWB or a magazine cap. A famous liberal POTUS from TEXAS proposed as much back in the 1960’s. Obama has lost the initiative and his opportunity to bring about meaningful change in gun policy because he listened to the gun control nuts. I’m not the first one to think so and i’m not the only one to think so. [http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-16/opinions/35863805\_1\_gun-control-gun-bill-gun-lobby](http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-16/opinions/35863805_1_gun-control-gun-bill-gun-lobby) In the aftermath of the assassination of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. LBJ tried to pass national licensing and registration requirements with the knowledge that he had a few weeks if not days to get legislation through congress. But Senator Tydings tabled LBJs proposal to push a more radical proposal and the bill got tied up in committee and gun control lobby lost the initiative. Tyding lost his opportunity to bring about meaningful change and he lost his reelection bid because he overplayed his hand. Feinstein is to Obama what Tyding was to LBJ. In light of this history, Obama has noone to blame but himself. So you gun control nuts can cuss all you want and blame the gun lobby for not just lying down or going away (I’m sure they feel the same way about you) but you really have noone to blame but yourselves because you folks were too ignorant about history, ignorant about guns, and stupid about politics to understand that you should have taken licensing and registration (I reckon you could have had it in January if you let the ghost of LBJ run things instead of the senior senator from California) rather than roll the dice on something as fucking retarded as an AWB. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1459 "2013-04-04T21:18:16Z")
I am sure that we are all dreadfully sorry that we have failed, once again, to rise to your expectations. WE can only hope that, someday, you may find it in your heart to forgive, but such generosity of spirit cannot be expected to be squandered on people who refuse to learn the intricacies of magazine capacities and bayonet mounts, yet nonetheless persist in having opinions. Please be advised that we are sufficiently abashed and admonished, and no further remonstrances of this sort are required. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1460 "2013-04-04T22:19:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I am sure that we are all dreadfully sorry that we have failed, once again, to rise to your expectations. WE can only hope that, someday, you may find it in your heart to forgive, but such generosity of spirit cannot be expected to be squandered on people who refuse to learn the intricacies of magazine capacities and bayonet mounts, yet nonetheless persist in having opinions. > > Please be advised that we are sufficiently abashed and admonished, and no further remonstrances of this sort are required. But it is relevant if proposals to ban some- but not all- guns are based on what the proscribed guns can or cannot do, compared to the ones that are not being considered for banning. At the far end of the spectrum you get full-retard statements like Jesse Jackson thinking that assault rifles can shoot down airliners. Is it too much to ask that a ban be debated on reality instead of myths and prejudice? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=74)