# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/141 "2013-02-03T12:56:26Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > That’s hilarious! Imagine how funny it would have been if this girl didn’t have a gun. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPfz7ENFUB0&list=UU02JJcAx3xXhXflFI\_wgZ6g&index=1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPfz7ENFUB0&list=UU02JJcAx3xXhXflFI_wgZ6g&index=1) Is there any chance you could ever link to something NOT youtube (or video-based)? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/142 "2013-02-03T13:12:31Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Is there any chance you could ever link to something NOT youtube (or video-based)? There’s always a chance. What do you think of this? https://www.youtube.com/embed/PoDNJQtNVoc?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque Isn’t it great to see a 65 year old woman chase out 5 armed robbers? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/143 "2013-02-03T13:38:18Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > There’s always a chance. What do you think of this? > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player\_embedded&v=PoDNJQtNVoc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PoDNJQtNVoc) > > Isn’t it great to see a 65 year old woman chase out 5 armed robbers? I think that as long as you post videos, I’ll be ignoring your posts. I’m simply not willing to commit to them that much. See, with an article, I can scan it, get the gist, and decide whether or not to follow up in more detail. Elapsed time 10-15 secs. Maybe 20-25 if the intrawebs are being crawly that day. With video, first there’s load time, then I have to watch the video - at its pace. Elapsed time is probably in the minutes range. So I don’t bother. Your choice, but since you’re the one trying to convince me (and people like me)\* of the correctness of your position then it’s to your benefit to make your argument in a compelling way. Youtube ain’t it for a lot of us. - Please note that I have posted neither for nor agin the OP, I am the “undecided”, the “needs convincing”. I am your audience since you guys sure aren’t going to change each other’s minds. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/144 "2013-02-03T13:54:53Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Isn’t it great to see a 65 year old woman chase out 5 armed robbers? Cool. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/145 "2013-02-03T14:02:48Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > I think that as long as you post videos, I’ll be ignoring your posts. I’m simply not willing to commit to them that much. See, with an article, I can scan it, get the gist, and decide whether or not to follow up in more detail. Elapsed time 10-15 secs. Maybe 20-25 if the intrawebs are being crawly that day. With video, first there’s load time, then I have to watch the video - at its pace. Elapsed time is probably in the minutes range. So I don’t bother. Your choice, but since you’re the one trying to convince me (and people like me)\* of the correctness of your position then it’s to your benefit to make your argument in a compelling way. Youtube ain’t it for a lot of us. > > - Please note that I have posted neither for nor agin the OP, I am the “undecided”, the “needs convincing”. I am your audience since you guys sure aren’t going to change each other’s minds. I apologize, I took you as one of the anti-gunners who only focus on the bad and ignore the good that guns are used for, and I am perhaps a bit oversensitive given the already poisoned title of this thread. As for reading, I’ve been talking about these articles in some other posts of mine which I think are well done. [http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-violence](http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-violence) > **[Sam Harris | Home of the Making Sense Podcast](https://www.samharris.org/blog/the-riddle-of-the-gun)** > > Join neuroscientist, philosopher, and best-selling author Sam Harris as he explores some of the most pressing and controversial questions of our time. [http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/faq-on-violence](http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/faq-on-violence) Going forward though my counter-offensive plan is to post a good news story for every bad news story I see, and I think with the videos are harder for people to just explain away than are statistics that on this subject nobody seems to trust and don’t seem to sway anyone. With a video or 911 transcript my hope is that seeing/hearing is believing. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/146 "2013-02-03T14:28:30Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I apologize, I took you as one of the anti-gunners who only focus on the bad and ignore the good that guns are used for, and I am perhaps a bit oversensitive given the already poisoned title of this thread. As for reading, I’ve been talking about these articles in some other posts of mine which I think are well done. > > [http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-violence](http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-violence) > > [Sam Harris | Home of the Making Sense Podcast](http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun) > > [http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/faq-on-violence](http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/faq-on-violence) > > Going forward though my counter-offensive plan is to post a good news story for every bad news story I see, and I think with the videos are harder for people to just explain away than are statistics that on this subject nobody seems to trust and don’t seem to sway anyone. With a video or 911 transcript my hope is that seeing/hearing is believing. It would be more impressive if you weren’t repeating incidents already. Plus you’re not achieving anywhere close to a 1:1 ratio, even with the fact that you’re going back in time to contrast with contemporary reports. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/147 "2013-02-03T14:40:29Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It would be more impressive if you weren’t repeating incidents already. Which one did I repeat? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/148 "2013-02-03T15:13:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Are you just trying to prove that you’re the dumbest gun rights proponent on the intarwebz? > > Your linked story isn’t about a gun owner at all. And you keep posting strawmen like you live in a hayfield. > > How do you find your mouth with the food? I mean, your posts are giving the impression that you’re a fucking idiot. Do you even understand _why_ you look like an idiot? Sorry I missed your comment earlier. The victim used shotgun to save herself from a man who raped her once, and broke into her house apparently attempting to do it again. Are you suggesting it does not count because she borrowed the shotgun from a neighbor and wasn’t a “gun owner” herself? Is that your objection? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/149 "2013-02-03T16:08:51Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Sorry I missed your comment earlier. The victim used shotgun to save herself from a man who raped her once, and broke into her house apparently attempting to do it again. Are you suggesting it does not count because she borrowed the shotgun from a neighbor and wasn’t a “gun owner” herself? Is that your objection? Really? Not many people want to outlaw shotguns. So I don’t see how that’s in the least bit relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/150 "2013-02-03T16:30:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Not many people want to outlaw shotguns. So I don’t see how that’s in the least bit relevant. Actually I think a number of people on the gun-control side want exactly that. Here’s a recent admission posted on this very forum just yesterday. > [@Do Joe Biden's Recent Comments On Gun Control Bother You?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/7): > > If some of us had our druthers, all guns would be banned. It seems pretty clear to me that they know they can’t get what they want now so they are going for a little at a time. I think the preferred term for that is incrementalism, and I do think incrementalism is their best shot towards their ultimate goal. A number of gun rights advocates know this and that’s why they oppose it. Also if you look up the proposals of the 1994 assault weapon ban, you will see that some shotguns, very suitable for home defense, were in fact banned. I forget though, did that have a measurable effect on crime? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/151 "2013-02-03T16:37:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Not many people want to outlaw shotguns. So I don’t see how that’s in the least bit relevant. Also I think this one bears repeating. https://www.youtube.com/embed/P6pYEJhIFxQ?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PLSw0sjngejk4zIZTU40pH-4MyqCdd0I_H The lady was saved with a handgun, and this very thread indicates that the general public does not like people to carry long arms in public. What’s also relevant is that this lady was saved by a 72 year man, who I have to think would have been physically unable to stop the assailant had he not been armed and most likely would have been killed himself. Agree? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/152 "2013-02-03T16:38:07Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Actually I think a number of people on the gun-control side want exactly that. Here’s a recent admission posted on this very forum just yesterday. > > It seems pretty clear to me that they know they can’t get what they want now so they are going for a little at a time. I think the preferred term for that is incrementalism, and I do think incrementalism is their best shot towards their ultimate goal. A number of gun rights advocates know this and that’s why they oppose it. > > Also if you look up the proposals of the 1994 assault weapon ban, you will see that some shotguns, very suitable for home defense, were in fact banned. I forget though, did that have a measurable effect on crime? Which shotguns? Also I fail to see how _not many_ isn’t congruent with your, _a number_. Most gun control advocates don’t want to ban shotguns. I’m pretty sure more people want to ban handguns. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/153 "2013-02-03T16:39:46Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Also I think this one bears repeating. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pYEJhIFxQ&list=PLSw0sjngejk4zIZTU40pH-4MyqCdd0I\_H](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pYEJhIFxQ&list=PLSw0sjngejk4zIZTU40pH-4MyqCdd0I_H) > > The lady was saved with a handgun, and this very thread indicates that the general public does not like people to carry long arms in public. What’s also relevant is that this lady was saved by a 72 year man, who I have to think would have been physically unable to stop the assailant had he not been armed and most likely would have been killed himself. Agree? I don’t know. But I do know that specific anecdotes are a profoundly stupid way to argue this issue. If ten people are murdered for every one saved from assault, then it’s not good argument that the one person is saved. Surely you are able to understand that? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/154 "2013-02-03T16:40:56Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Also if you look up the proposals of the 1994 assault weapon ban, you will see that some shotguns, very suitable for home defense, were in fact banned. I forget though, did that have a measurable effect on crime? Devil’s Advocate: The guys who went on a B&E spree in the Little Rock [Hillcrest](http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story/UPDATE-Suspects-arrested-in-connection-to-Little/8O1WoFvEWU-AGjqfX4rnAg.cspx) neighborhood had a shotgun. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/155 "2013-02-03T16:45:18Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If ten people are murdered for every one saved from assault, then it’s not good argument that the one person is saved. Surely you are able to understand that? Rather selfishly, it depends to me upon whether I or someone I care for is the one person saved. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/156 "2013-02-03T16:56:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Rather selfishly, it depends to me upon whether I or someone I care for is the one person saved. If you accept those numbers (hypothetically) then statistically it is more likely they’ll be one of the murdered. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/157 "2013-02-03T17:08:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If you accept those numbers (hypothetically) then statistically it is more likely they’ll be one of the murdered. However slim the odds, I’d still like to stack them in my favor. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/158 "2013-02-03T17:33:16Z")
[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?_r=0) "In the 1990s, a team headed by Arthur Kellermann of Emory University looked at all injuries involving guns kept in the home in Memphis, Seattle and Galveston, Tex. They found that these weapons were fired far more often in accidents, criminal assaults, homicides or suicide attempts than in self-defense. For every instance in which a gun in the home was shot in self-defense, there were seven criminal assaults or homicides, four accidental shootings, and 11 attempted or successful suicides. " 1:22. Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/159 "2013-02-03T17:41:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > However slim the odds, I’d still like to stack them in my favor. > 🙂 If you accept the hypothetical, banning guns would stack the odds in your favor. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/160 "2013-02-03T17:43:05Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?_r=0) > > "In the 1990s, a team headed by Arthur Kellermann of Emory University looked at all injuries involving guns kept in the home in Memphis, Seattle and Galveston, Tex. They found that these weapons were fired far more often in accidents, criminal assaults, homicides or suicide attempts than in self-defense. For every instance in which a gun in the home was shot in self-defense, there were seven criminal assaults or homicides, four accidental shootings, and 11 attempted or successful suicides. " > > 1:22. Ouch. Most gun enthusiasts don’t count suicides. Even though having a gun increases the chance you’ll commit suicide. Everyone has been at low emotional points and people who have a gun handy when that happens are more likely to impulsively turn the switch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=9)