# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1581 "2013-04-08T03:49:20Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > You drove your family to church and use words like “Jesus Fuck?” Aren’t you people not supposed to take the name of your imaginary friends in vain or something? Note that I said I drove them to church. I left out the part where I went home, took a shower, took a nap, and went back to pick them up from church because I thought my day without giving you a first, much less a second, thought was boring enough. > [@](#): > > OK, so what’s your answer to my question? Don’t know. Do you? > [@](#): > > OK, so what percentage of reported home invasions turn out to be raccoons? Don’t know. Do you? > [@](#): > > In my home invasion, it was 2:30 in the morning, no lights on, and I was being struck by a 2"x4". So you shot a person without first identifying him or her and fired without first verifying that the bullet would not strike anyone else? So you did not “Know your target and what is beyond?” It could’ve been anybody hitting you with that 2x4; based on what you are like here, there could be enough suspects to fill an Agatha Christie novel, some of whom you might not want to shoot. > [@](#): > > Well afterwards I did put Trijicon night sights on my some of my handguns, a Surefire flashlight forearm on my home defense shotgun, and started shooting competitively. I’m a USPSA Master level shooter now. About goddamn time. Shoulda done that BEFORE you started shooting people. > [@](#): > > I give others lessons now. Need any? 🙂 Nope. Don’t have a gun and don’t plan to get one. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1582 "2013-04-08T03:53:28Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > OK, so what number of reported incidents do you accept and what percent do you think are made by grandmothers as you describe? I only wish we knew. [Unfortunately,](http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/opinion/halpern-gun-research) > [@](#): > > In 1996, the National Rifle Association pressured its many supporters in Congress to put the squeeze on the CDC by cutting funding that went to gun research, with the stipulation: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.” Gun-related research ground to a halt. Oh, but the CDC was biased, I hear you bleat. Right. Full of gun grabbers, I bet. > [@](#): > > “Criticizing research is fair game,” Drs. Arthur Kellermann and Frederick Rivara wrote in opposition in the Journal of the American Medical Association last month. “Suppressing research by targeting its sources of funding is not.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1583 "2013-04-08T04:30:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > This is what winning looks like: > > > [@](#): > > > > Begich has signed on as a co-sponsor of a bill, drafted in consultation with the NRA, that would change the way mental illness is reported in the background check system — a measure that critics say could make firearms more easily available to the mentally ill. Not sure if this is the same bill but from later in the article: > [@](#): > > The most powerful case in point is the background check legislation now being co-sponsored by Begich… > > Those co-sponsors say the bill would make technical improvements to the current background check system and allow veterans and others to regain their Second Amendment rights after recovering from mental illness. Graham said in a statement Friday that the bill would “ensure that those who have been declared an imminent danger to themselves or others aren’t legally able to obtain a firearm. I would expect overwhelming bipartisan support for our legislation.” Are the critics talking about this bill? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1584 "2013-04-08T04:31:18Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Note that I said I drove them to church. I left out the part where I went home, took a shower, took a nap, and went back to pick them up from church because I thought my day without giving you a first, much less a second, thought was boring enough. You should educate your family. > [@](#): > > Don’t know. Do you? I’ll go somewhere in the middle and estimate 500,000. > [@](#): > > Don’t know. Do you? I’ll estimate less than 1%. > [@](#): > > So you shot a person without first identifying him or her and fired without first verifying that the bullet would not strike anyone else? Wow, you sound one of those people who likes to blame the victim. The guy struck me 3 times with a 2x4. That was good enough for me to evaluate that he wasn’t a friend. I shot at his midsection as well as I could at the time and I was reasonably certain there was nobody else between us. It was dark but not pitch dark. And I completely agree that a weapon light would have led to earlier threat identification. Live and learn I say. > [@](#): > > So you did not “Know your target and what is beyond?” I knew the target well enough. Beyond him was an empty bathroom then an exterior wall. Would you have done something different? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1585 "2013-04-08T04:57:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I am sure that we are all dreadfully sorry that we have failed, once again, to rise to your expectations. WE can only hope that, someday, you may find it in your heart to forgive, but such generosity of spirit cannot be expected to be squandered on people who refuse to learn the intricacies of magazine capacities and bayonet mounts, yet nonetheless persist in having opinions. > > Please be advised that we are sufficiently abashed and admonished, and no further remonstrances of this sort are required. I don’t expect you to know anything about it and to be fair, you changed your tune on a few things after the facts became clearer to you. But the folks driving the gun control agenda know better but they seem more interested in making a point than making a difference. They are aware of history. They know how silly an AWB is. They know that the most effective thing we can do (consistent with the second amendment) is licensing and registration. But they keep trying to get an AWB. I can only conclude they are retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1586 "2013-04-08T05:42:10Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Hahahahaha: > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nra-tactics-erode-post-newtown-support-for-gun-control-measures/2013/04/05/fa932046-9d52-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nra-tactics-erode-post-newtown-support-for-gun-control-measures/2013/04/05/fa932046-9d52-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html) > > We win! Its not NRA tactics that are winning, its that the hysteria is dying down and the idiocy of an AWB is seeping in and since the gun control folks made the AWB the crown jewel of their push, the demise of the AWB undercut their credibility on everything. > [@Kable](#): > > Maybe the Christians aren’t all bad: > > [Liberty University Loosens Guns On Campus Rules To Allow Concealed Carry In Classrooms | HuffPost College](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/liberty-university-guns-on-campus_n_3017005.html?utm_hp_ref=religion) Be careful who you get in bed with. > [@Kable](#): > > Hahahahaha, even democrats say NRA is beating the white house on gun control: > > [http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/poll-even-democrats-say-the-nra-is-beating-the-white-house-on-the-gun-debate-20130404](http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/poll-even-democrats-say-the-nra-is-beating-the-white-house-on-the-gun-debate-20130404) It didn’t have to be this way but the gun control folks just don’t know what the fuck they are doing. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Well the American public seems to be voting with their wallets: ammunition manufacturers are maxed out and still can’t meet the demand: > [http://www.news10.net/news/article/239767/2/Gun-store-owners-Ammunition-shortage-not-going-away](http://www.news10.net/news/article/239767/2/Gun-store-owners-Ammunition-shortage-not-going-away) I’ve seen firearm prices come down to near pre-Newtown levels. The problem is you can’t get any ammo to shoot through them. Some idiots somewhere are hoarding them to fight off zombies or something. I literally don’t have enough rounds to fill my magazines. I know its not the same thing but I have picked up a few laser targets and laserlyte trainers to dry fire. On the plus side, practicing has gotten veeerryy cheap, on the minus side, its just not the same without the bang. > [@elucidator](#): > > Another reason why I favor the “liability insurance” approach… > So, what do you think? We have liability insurance for cars, why not guns? If you guys are right about how safe guns are, what a boon they are to the home, you should have no problem, right? > > Is that crickets I hear? A lot of gun control advocates go through a phase when they think insurance would be the answer until they realize that what they are proposing is requiring simply excess liability or umbrella insurance for gun owners. When you get this insurance, the incidence of accidental/negligent discharge is so tiny compared to the incidence of auto accidents that exceed the auto insurance cap that gun ownership doesn’t even show up as a blip. If you wanted insurance JUST for gun accidents and negligence discharge, then I suspect that the insurance would be indifferent to the number or types of guns you have and focus on demographics and locality. I also suspect it would be fairly cheap considering that something like 100 million gun owners produce something like 15,000 accidnetal/negligent injuries per year, of which 600-700 are fatal. A LOT of these injuries are self inflicted. > [@RedFury](#): > > If this doesn’t show how ‘safe’ you are carrying a gun, I don’t know what does:.. > One “of the best” and a “veteran”! Can’t imagine what Joe Carrying Citizen would have done better. But I am sure you can… You seem to be saying we should disarm the police too;):eek::eek::eek: 😉 > [@jasg](#): > > I have tried this too - just to defray the costs to society of gun violence rather than from general tax revenues and higher medical insurance premiums. > > It is usually waved off as being a ‘Poll tax’ on a constitutional right.. :smack: > > btw, the NRA sells liability insurance to their members already. Now you are going a lot further than elucidator (at least as I understood him). You are advocating an insurance program where gun owners would pay for the criminal acts of others. We don’t do this in any other arena. The liability insurance thee NRA sells is simple umbrella insurance, its marketed as gun insurance but its much more likely to end up covering you if you have a bad car accident. > [@Kable](#): > > Read it and weep you saps: > > [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/18/cnn-poll-is-support-for-gun-control-dipping/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/18/cnn-poll-is-support-for-gun-control-dipping/) They lost the initiative. They chased an AWB and wasted their opportunity. > [@elucidator](#): > > Hell, shouldn’t you guys be expecting a _discount_ on your insurance, since you have guns? And they make you so much safer, and all? Are you confusing life insurance and liability insurance? > [@dropzone](#): > > Oooh! Oooh! Mister **Kay-BELL**! > > Fewer than the number of accidental shootings? quite the opposite. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Not enough to justify turning a blind eye to the carnage from accidental and premeditated homicide. Accidental shooting is a valid statistic for comparison. Contrasting the danger of owning a gun with the benefit of owning a gun makes sense. Homocides are not a useful statistic for comparisonl. Comparing homocides committed overwhelmingly by criminals who shouldn’t have guns to begin with to defensive gun use to justify taking guns away from law abiding citizens is fairly useless. > [@Ca3799](#): > > This weeks GunFAIL XII is located here: [GunFAIL XII](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/05/1198090/-GunFAIL-XII?showAll=yes) and reports that the CDC counted 14,675 unintentional firearm incidents in 2011. > > 282 a week. > > This week’s blog has quite a few trained professionals. Let us just see what they were up to: > > An off-duty cop in Louisiana and an accidental discharge (no, not THAT kind) is a strip club bathroom. He snuck out. > > Another off duty cop in Pennsylvania accidentally shot a friend in the hand. > > A salesman for police equipment left 7 guns, bullets and other equipment in his unlocked car overnight and was surprised to find them gone the next morning. At least no one was shot or killed with any of them. Yet. > > A Coconino County Sheriff also forgot his gun in the car. Stolen! > > An off-duty sheriff’s deputy in Norfolk forgot his weapon in a Macy’s dressing room. > > The off-duty cop “securing” his weapon in Philadelphia did not hit any people. Winning! > > In Oregon, a retired sheriff’s captain shot himself in the hand while cleaning a gun… at his annual qualification test… at the police firing range. > > I’m confused about the guy from the Florida National Guard. Was it a grenade or an assault rifle he was threatening those women with? Oh, both! > > A licensed NRA gun safety instructor in Connecticut had to miss the big pro-gun rally after he shot himself in the foot. Oops! > > Deputies target practicing at a shooting range had to call the cops because some yahoos next to the range were just randomly target shooting and sending stray bullets over the heads of the target practicing deputies. To be fair, these trained guys weren’t guilty of dumbassery. > > Ex-cop shot at his estranged wife while they both were driving separate cars down the road. It is being called ‘a road rage’ incident. Hmm. I’d call it attempted murder, but whatevs. > > An accidental discharge by a security guard hit a patron in the head at an IHOP. Killed. 😕 The intro paragraph talks about gun injuries and the article references several cases of guns being lost in bathrooms and shit like that. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Seems to me if a gun in the house made things measurably safer for the residents, the insurance companies would have discovered this by now. It probably doesn’t really move the actuarial data very much compared to things like pools, trampolines and teenage drivers. > [@elucidator](#): > > I glanced at it, not real sophisticated when it comes to insurance, so I don’t really know what I’m looking at, seems to cap out at 250K. Is that a lot? What sort of loopholes and trap doors are in the legalese? Its just umbrella insurance marketed as “gun liability insurance” > [@](#): > > Do any of the main insurance groups ask any such questions? Mine didn’t > [@](#): > > Does the NRA selling insurance fill a gap, is there some special reason they would be in the business of selling insurance, rather than just their standard output of fear? They probably get a cut. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > What would sensible gun control, if any, look like to you? national licensing and registration. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1587 "2013-04-08T10:07:01Z")
I wonder where Kable reported his supposed incident of DGU. He keeps asking for numbers. Maybe the organizations he reported to has records/stats.(LOL!) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1588 "2013-04-08T12:11:09Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I’ll go somewhere in the middle and estimate 500,000. Gee, all that buildup and your “gotcha” is just you pulling a number out of your own ass? Your ability to disappoint never disappoints. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1589 "2013-04-08T12:25:29Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > So do you agree with FoieGrasIsEvil about there being 100,000 to 1 million defensive gun uses per year? Since we are just throwing out wild assed guesses, I’d say there are no more than 5,000 per year. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1590 "2013-04-08T12:50:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Since we are just throwing out wild assed guesses, I’d say there are no more than 5,000 per year. I would agree with this estimate. It’s still higher than the number of cases that can be documented in any given year. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1591 "2013-04-08T13:21:44Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Gee, all that buildup and your “gotcha” is just you pulling a number out of your own ass? Your ability to disappoint never disappoints. Not really just pulled out of my ass but rather from the middle of estimates… > **[Defensive gun use](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use)** > > Defensive gun use (DGU) is the use or presentation of a firearm for self-defense, defense of others or, in some cases, protecting property. The frequency of incidents involving DGU and their effectiveness in providing safety and reducing crime are controversial issues in gun politics and criminology, chiefly in the United States.: 64  Different authors and studies employ different criteria for what constitutes a defensive gun use which leads to controversy in comparing statistical results. Per Es... …just like I said. But even the lowest estimates dwarf homicides and accidental gun deaths, as you can read above. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1592 "2013-04-08T13:22:50Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I would agree with this estimate. It’s still higher than the number of cases that can be documented in any given year. Show your math. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1593 "2013-04-08T13:30:10Z")
Here’s another nice article Hentor, I know Fear Itself just made something up, but since you are into statistics maybe you can say how you got 5000. Or is it just the lowest number you have heard so for an irrationally “anchored” to it? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1594 "2013-04-08T13:56:57Z")
It’s as reasonable an estimate as those derived from very flawed methods. I already showed you from a cite you yourself provided how those methods result in very questionable data. What is needed are data derived from a method that helps to reduce inflated responses. At this point it is indisputable that gun owners are easily frightened and paranoid people. They are more likely to perceive a threat when one is not present, so asking them to estimate how many times they have successfully repelled a threat when one was not present is going to generate overestimates - sometimes outrageous overestimates. It’s just that the successful curtailing of gun related research by the NRA reduces the likelihood that we will have this data any time in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1595 "2013-04-08T14:04:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s as reasonable an estimate as those derived from very flawed methods. I already showed you from a cite you yourself provided how those methods result in very questionable data. > > What is needed are data derived from a method that helps to reduce inflated responses. At this point it is indisputable that gun owners are easily frightened and paranoid people. They are more likely to perceive a threat when one is not present, so asking them to estimate how many times they have successfully repelled a threat when one was not present is going to generate overestimates - sometimes outrageous overestimates. > > It’s just that the successful curtailing of gun related research by the NRA reduces the likelihood that we will have this data any time in the near future. Let me help you Hentor: [http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense) Even the low estimates by gun control advocates dwarf what number you made up and he went out of his way to eliminate false positives. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1596 "2013-04-08T14:28:06Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Let me help you Hentor: > > [http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense) > > Even the low estimates by gun control advocates dwarf what number you made up and he went out of his way to eliminate false positives. “He” who? You’ve linked to an article summarizing the primary literature, not to any new literature. The number one conclusion of the article you linked to is that we don’t know how often guns are successfully used in self-defense. If by “he” you mean David Hemenway, here’s an article of his: > **[Gun use in the United States: results from two national surveys](https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/4/263.full)** > > Objectives —To determine the relative incidence of gun victimization versus self defense gun use by civilians in the United States, and the circumstances and probable legality of the self defense uses. > > Methods —National random digit dial telephone... He finds that people are threatened or intimidated with a firearm far more often than they appropriately use one in self-defense. Further, here is some discussion of the problems with asking gun owners about their “successful” defensive gun use: > [@](#): > > Two examples from the 1999 survey of incidents that were unanimously deemed probably illegal were: > > • A 62 year old male said that at 6 pm “the police called. My alarm at my business went off so I went there to shut it off. Two men were outside my building, so from my car I shot at the ground near them”. The respondent said the men were trespassing. > > • A 58 year old male was inside his home at 2 pm. “I was watching a movie and [an acquaintance] interrupted me. I yelled that I was going to shoot him and he ran to his car”. The respondent said his acquaintance was committing a verbal assault. The respondent’s gun, a .44 Magnum, was located “in my holster on me”. > > […] > > Over two thirds (68%) of the 146 self defense gun use incidents from the two surveys were reported by six respondents. Three people claimed 50, 20 and 15 self defense incidents in the previous five years, but refused to describe the most recent event. In the 1999 survey, an 18 year old male reported six cases. He described the most recent incident: “I was at school and they pulled a gun during an argument. They fired and I fired”. So, you get people who fire off rounds at the feet of people who may or may not be breaking in to a business, or someone who successfully uses his gun against someone who interrupted his movie watching. You get people who claim 50 successful gun uses or who use their gun “successfully” as the escalation of the conflict that they may have started. We need research that can help to address these obvious problems. Otherwise, it’s garbage in, garbage out. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1597 "2013-04-08T14:33:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Perhaps, but would that mean that the risks are negligible or that the risks are outside the range that insurance will cover? After all, no one sells suicide insurance. I don’t know. I’m having a hard time figuring out who would sell such insurance. From a homeowner’s perspective, it would seem to be a liability issue but if I “accidentally” clubbed someone with a baseball bat, I wouldn’t expect my homeowner’s policy to cover it because AFAIK, they don’t cover behavior. If a gun on the premises greatly increases your chances of hitting a family member (who would often be covered under the gun owner’s medical policy), then it would seem that health insurance would charge more for gun owners. Again, either the risk is neglible, it is offset by the likelihood of an intruder harming a covered party or they just don’t want to stir that pot. ISTM that some company would at least look into it. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1598 "2013-04-08T14:35:40Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > “He” who? You’ve linked to an article summarizing the primary literature, not to any new literature. The number one conclusion of the article you linked to is that we don’t know how often guns are successfully used in self-defense. Of course we don’t know, so we estimate, and nobody is estimating 5000 except you and fearitself. Even Hemenway came up with estimates far higher than you got and far higher than the number of homicides and accidents in a year. But I agree we really do need to educate people in public schools regarding safe gun use and defensive use, else guys like Joe Biden will continue to advocate defense techniques that are illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1599 "2013-04-08T15:21:41Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Show your math. Why? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/1600 "2013-04-08T15:22:14Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > … But I agree we really do need to educate people in public schools regarding safe gun use and defensive use, else guys like Joe Biden will continue to advocate defense techniques that are illegal. That’s quite a concession, surely it shows how reasonable you are and amenable to persuasion. Which “gun grabbers” have advocated the public school education in proper firearm safety that you are agreeing with? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=81)