# Stupid ignorant pigheaded parents who refuse vitamin K shots for their newborns. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297 "2014-07-29T03:09:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/1 "2014-07-29T03:09:05Z")
> **[Babies are getting brain bleeds—are vaccine fears to blame?](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/07/vitamin-k-injection-infants-safety/)** > > Some parents are refusing vitamin K injections for their newborns. The consequences can be devastating. > [@](#): > > Seven infants, aged between seven and 20 weeks old, had arrived at Vanderbilt University’s Monroe Carell Jr. Children’s Hospital over the past eight months with a condition called “vitamin K deficiency bleeding,” or VKDB. This rare disorder occurs because human infants do not have enough vitamin K, a blood coagulant, in their systems. Infants who develop VKDB can bleed in various parts of their bodies, including bleeding into the brain. This can cause brain damage or even death. > … > There is a simple protection against VKDB that has been in regular medical use since 1961, when it was recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics: Infants receive an injection of vitamin K into the leg muscle right after birth. Infants do not get enough of this vitamin from their mother’s body or her milk, so this injection (which is not a vaccine, but simply a vitamin being delivered via a shot) is essential > … > parents interviewed by the CDC after bringing in their infants with VKDB showed concerns about the injection. “Reasons included concern about an increased risk for leukemia when vitamin K is administered, an impression that the injection was unnecessary, and a desire to minimize the newborn’s exposure to ‘toxins,’” observes a CDC report. Of course none of these reasons have any scientific basis whatsoever. When I Google [infant vitamin k injections](https://www.google.com/search?q=infant+vitamin+k+injections) the first result is goddamn motherfucking Mercola, with the headline “The High Risks of Vitamin K Shot for Your Newborn Baby”. The anti-vax insanity is now spreading beyond vaccines and causing parents to risk death or brain damage for their newborn in order to avoid a safe, inexpensive, and common vitamin injection. I thought these kinds of nuts were into vitamins? I guess that’s true only when it’s not recommended by a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/2 "2014-07-29T04:01:38Z")
I wonder if the qualification of it being a “rare disorder” is due to the prevalence of the injection. 7 infants in 8 months doesn’t sound so rare. And I want to punch anyone who woos at me about “toxins.” ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/3 "2014-07-29T13:27:07Z")
I partially blame the culture of entitlement we’ve recently developed regarding medicine. Now I’m sure a lot of stupid ideas about the state of things today have included half-baked “culture of entitlement” theories, but mine’s totally different, honest. I’ve noticed right-wing politicians, especially, trying to sell the idea of “choice” with doctors, treatment, caring for your child, etc. I think it’s a result of the individualist mindset championed by such politicians, and in some cases, I think it’s even part of a deliberate attempt to erase any community solidarity - that disgusting red streak so many possess. Here in the UK, it’s also an attempt to inject free market capitalism into healthcare and other public services. So you don’t have to send your kid to the local school, you can fight the other parents for the best school. You don’t have to listen to what your doctor says; listening to people with science degrees is for commies and fags, and you’ll be damned if you don’t already know what’s best for your kids. It’s almost universally assumed that parents have the right to decide whatever treatment, education, etc. is appropriate for their kids. But it’s the kids that have to live with the consequences of their parents’ wacky ideas and experimentation. Even if we don’t create laws requiring parents to do what’s best for their kids in a lot of these cases, I think, socially, we’re far too accepting of a parent’s “right to choose”. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/4 "2014-07-29T14:24:41Z")
I’m no expert, but I’ve read around a little and as I understand it this injection is 100% safe and 100% effective. I freely admit I may have absolutely no clue what I’m talking about, but that’s what a little googling has led me to believe. Now, assuming those two premises are correct, and assuming I were a real doctor and not just some random internet moron, if I gave these kids the injection anyway and just didn’t tell the parents would that make me a bad person? I mean, I know it’s not allowed and I would totally be breaking the law, but in simple moral terms just how ethically dodgy would I be? Of course, if the injection is anything short of 100% safe and 100% effective you can disregard this question. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/5 "2014-07-29T14:27:40Z")
My recommended solution (not serious . . . but maybe a little): let the children die, unless the parents pay out-of-pocket up front for all treatment necessary. If we allow parents to make the choice to not get medically recommended treatment for their infants, then I don’t see why society should clean up after their poor choices. Let a few of these kids die, and announce, “kid would have lived, had the parents let the doctor give at vitamin K shot,” and I’ll bet other criminally skeptical parents will change their minds right quick. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/6 "2014-07-29T15:29:21Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Let a few of these kids die, and announce, “kid would have lived, had the parents let the doctor give at vitamin K shot,” and I’ll bet other criminally skeptical parents will change their minds right quick. Some might - others will dig in their heels even harder. Unfortunately, the rate of infant die-off is likely too small to have a useful evolutionary effect - the extinction of stupid. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/7 "2014-07-29T16:01:03Z")
These are the same parents who will end up stuffing their kids full of sugar-laden orange juice and granola bars later on (provided they live. (sign of cross)) because the package says “Natural!” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/8 "2014-07-29T16:52:33Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I thought these kinds of nuts were into vitamins? I guess that’s true only when it’s not recommended by a doctor. Don’t be silly; vitamins are in pills, usually shaped like dinosaurs, cartoon characters or barnyard animals. I think they might be in vegetables, too. Giving them in a shot is just bowing down to Big Pharma. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/9 "2014-07-29T16:56:02Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > I wonder if the qualification of it being a “rare disorder” is due to the prevalence of the injection. 7 infants in 8 months doesn’t sound so rare. And I want to punch anyone who woos at me about “toxins.” When I was born, in 1946, it says on my birth certificate, I was given silver iodide drops on my eyes to fight possible syphilis infection. A state mandated treatment. Injecting a new born infant with anything is brutality. Same category ads slicing the little guys foreskin off. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/10 "2014-07-29T17:05:51Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > Injecting a new born infant with anything is brutality Oh, absolutely, it’s far kinder and more natural to allow them to develop a brain bleed. I mean, I don’t have kids, but if I ever do I’ll fight for their right to die at a few weeks old rather than have a moment of discomfort! Anything else is just “scientific” madness!!! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/11 "2014-07-29T17:10:50Z")
I always wonder how they are defining ‘toxins’. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/12 "2014-07-29T17:20:56Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > When I was born, in 1946, it says on my birth certificate, I was given silver iodide drops on my eyes to fight possible syphilis infection. A state mandated treatment. > Injecting a new born infant with anything is brutality. Same category ads slicing the little guys foreskin off. And did you get syphilis? No? Well then. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/13 "2014-07-29T17:25:02Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I always wonder how they are defining ‘toxins’. Probably the preservatives and stabilizers in the vitamin injection. Because, you know, pills don’t have any preservatives or stabilizers. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/14 "2014-07-29T17:25:18Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > […] > > Now, assuming those two premises are correct, and assuming I were a real doctor and not just some random internet moron, if I gave these kids the injection anyway and just didn’t tell the parents would that make me a bad person? I mean, I know it’s not allowed and I would totally be breaking the law, but in simple moral terms just how ethically dodgy would I be? > […] Tell it to the judge. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/15 "2014-07-29T17:35:27Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I always wonder how they are defining ‘toxins’. Might be the hydroxyl acid that they use as a base for most liquid injections. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/16 "2014-07-29T17:44:59Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Might be the hydroxyl acid that they use as a base for most liquid injections. OMG! An _acid_? That has got to be bad for you-- I don’t care what else is in it, no one is dosing my kid with acid! ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/17 "2014-07-29T17:51:49Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Tell it to the judge. Ahem… > [@me](#): > > I mean, I know it’s not allowed and I would totally be breaking the law, but **in simple moral terms** just how ethically dodgy would I be? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/18 "2014-07-29T18:06:39Z")
[QUOTE=Doctor\_Why\_Bothe] r I mean, I know it’s not allowed and I would totally be breaking the law, but in simple moral terms just how ethically dodgy would I be? [/QUOTE] The simple term you’re looking for is “informed consent”, a basic ethical (and legal) tenet of modern medicine. Violate that, and it’s do not pass go, do get one’s license suspended or revoked, and do pay umpteen bucks to patient or legal overseer of patient’s care. For those with any doubts about the connection between parental refusal of vitamin K shots for their babies and the antivaccine movement, here’s some [“helpful” advice](http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/alabama.htm) from [vaclib.org](http://vaclib.org) (an antivax organization): “For those who are planning a hospital birth but want to evade invasive routine post natal procedures such as a Hep B shot, vitamin K injection, newborn screening, or the application of silver nitrate in the newborn’s eyes, a very specific birthing plan must be submitted to the hospital in advance of the birth. Hospital staff must be informed, in advance, of your needs, wants and desires where your baby and birthing experience are concerned.” Remember parents, it’s not about your baby’s right to avoid serious and potentially fatal bleeding, it’s about “your needs, wants and desires”. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/19 "2014-07-29T18:22:05Z")
Go read some home birth websites if you really want your head to spin. Women who had hospital births refer to it as “birth rape,” and women who lost babies in home births claim things like “it was a variation of normal.” There was even one loon who claimed that her hospital “birth rape,” that resulted in a healthy baby, was more traumatic _for her_ than the home birth where she lost her baby. The egocentrism is unbelievable. It’s not about the baby for these people, it’s about the “birth experience.” ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/20 "2014-07-29T18:40:50Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > Ahem… In simple moral terms? Considering the general attitude toward religion and morals that prevails on this board, my guess would be that you set your own rules…better take it up with your attorney. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297.md?page=2)