# Stupid ignorant pigheaded parents who refuse vitamin K shots for their newborns. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297 "2014-07-29T03:09:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/61 "2014-08-02T17:54:27Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Do you seriously think that every single doctor in the hospital is a quack? if so, why did you go to that hospital to have your baby? Yes, I know there are some small towns with just one hospital, but seriously, we’re talking about people who were on board for a hospital birth, and presumably had pre-natal care with an OB. And then suddenly they question a vitamin injection? Why would you think I think that at all? Certainly non everyone gets pre-natal care, and giving birth is expected to be very painful, so going where they have pain meds is perfectly logical, regardless of one’s personal beliefs in the competence and honesty of the medical establishment in general. Medicine is not “all or nothing.” ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/62 "2014-08-03T01:33:34Z")
Point well taken. I found I have a vein in my left calf that isn’t doing its job. The doctor who made the diagnosis, closed the vein off with a special surgical procedure, so the other veins in the calf would do that vein ’ s work. It succeeded. My leg walks normally again. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/63 "2014-08-03T05:03:00Z")
“Toxins” are just the evil spirits of yesteryear with a pseudoscientific moniker. Modernity has not made people smarter, it’s just given them different things to be ignorantly afraid of. A vegan acquaintance recently urged upon me two of her best standby remedies for pretty much everything, as both of them are on Toxins like fleas on a dog. She left me with samples and extensive instructions (I find it best to nod and smile benignly when people do this). What were they? Chlorine dioxide (marketed as MMS "Miracle Mineral Solution), and zeolite. This is an intelligent, educated person. I truly don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/64 "2014-08-03T14:48:26Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Chlorine dioxide (marketed as MMS "Miracle Mineral Solution), and zeolite. wait a minute: zeolite is aluminum and silicon. If those were in a vaccine as preservatives and stabilizers, people would be ranting about “toxins.” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/65 "2014-08-03T15:00:33Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Modernity has not made people smarter, it’s just given them different things to be ignorantly afraid of. +1 ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/66 "2014-08-03T16:12:21Z")
Like dihydrogen oxide? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/67 "2014-08-03T16:48:39Z")
> [@simster](#): > > you’re not one of them. Don’t fret the haters, Dougie. You’re totally winning this argument. Like fucking them in the ass winning. They are just jealous of your brilliant wit, huge IQ and massive dick. Don’t stop, don’t ever stop. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/68 "2014-08-03T17:00:04Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Chlorine dioxide (marketed as MMS "Miracle Mineral Solution) Eek! MMS is bleach, distilled water, and some kind of food-grade acid (like lemon juice or vinegar). It makes you vomit, if you are lucky, and if you aren’t, can cause hemolysis, impaired thyroid function, and kidney failure. It can also, through vomiting and diarrhea, cause dehydration and low blood pressure. Talk about toxins! ETA: It’s illegal in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/69 "2014-08-04T01:52:42Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > How is the average schmo supposed to discern the difference between fake science and the real thing? “Trust us, we’re scientists!” is unsurprisingly not compelling. > If real scientists are so smart, why aren’t they better at convincing fools to make better choices? Look at Dr. Mercola and his ilk: they are clearly superior at marketing “ideas” to that segment of the population that lacks critical thinking skills. Get a better ad agency, science! Quick and dirty method of separating the science from the superstition/marketing, if you want my opinion? If your source is trying to sell you something? It’s probably not a great source for unbiased information. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/70 "2014-08-04T02:22:35Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I don’t give a damn whether you respect me or not! If I were a parent I would be furious if a doctor gave my child treatment without my knowledge or consent. Not only would I not pay for such treatment, I would sue the doctor–and maybe even press assault charges. In any case, I would turn the matter over to my lawyer. Without your knowledge, no. But depending on the procedure and the illness, by law, the government can indeed force certain treatment on children, despite their parents’ wishes. You have a right to make your decisions as to your own health, but for your children, it’s limited. Certain life-saving medical procedures cannot be withheld and the state can and will step in if necessary. (Cancer treatments, certain operations, etc) As for pressing charges, chances are you (general you) might be charged with child endangerment. Look it up. Now, as far as the situation in the OP, no, doctors should not be giving vitamin k shots without knowledge or consent. However, nor should parents be refusing them on some stupid anti-vaccination woo. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/71 "2014-08-04T03:58:36Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > Quick and dirty method of separating the science from the superstition/marketing, if you want my opinion? > > If your source is trying to sell you something? It’s probably not a great source for unbiased information. Simple. Most people cannot figure out how to add fractions, calculate a percentage of a number, or name all of the continents. They are not equipped to make this determination and are often concerned that someone will outsmart and trick them into doing something against their interests. Often they are right, but they don’t know how to tell which is which, and why would they? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/72 "2014-08-04T04:29:44Z")
And considering how many people think “Africa” is a country, I weep. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/73 "2014-08-04T05:29:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Without your knowledge, no. But depending on the procedure and the illness, by law, the government can indeed force certain treatment on children, despite their parents’ wishes. You have a right to make your decisions as to your own health, but for your children, it’s limited. Certain life-saving medical procedures cannot be withheld and the state can and will step in if necessary. (Cancer treatments, certain operations, etc) > > As for pressing charges, chances are you (general you) might be charged with child endangerment. Look it up. > > Now, as far as the situation in the OP, no, doctors should not be giving vitamin k shots without knowledge or consent. However, nor should parents be refusing them on some stupid anti-vaccination woo. Vaccination has never been a problem for me. I’m all for it. When I was a kid my parents taught me how to deal with getting shots. They told me Yes, it would hurt–but told me how to bear up under it. I succeeded. I’ve never had any objection to injections since; but if I were a parent I would certainly want the doctor to tell me what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/74 "2014-08-04T05:30:40Z")
> [@susan](#): > > And considering how many people think “Africa” is a country, I weep. “Africa is God’s country–and He can have it.”–Groucho Marx ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/75 "2014-08-04T10:36:06Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Most people cannot figure out how to add fractions, calculate a percentage of a number, or name all of the continents. They are not equipped to make this determination and are often concerned that someone will outsmart and trick them into doing something against their interests. Often they are right, but they don’t know how to tell which is which, and why would they? Regardless of whether the “average” person is knowledgeable or intelligent, even the dumb ones can see whether there’s a link on the page trying to sell the snake oil being touted in the article! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/76 "2014-08-04T12:46:03Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > Regardless of whether the “average” person is knowledgeable or intelligent, even the dumb ones can see whether there’s a link on the page trying to sell the snake oil being touted in the article! 😃 Do you think that Vitamin K shot is free? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/77 "2014-08-04T15:24:58Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Do you think that Vitamin K shot is free? It would be (to the parents, anyway) under a civilized health insurance system. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/78 "2014-08-04T15:36:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It would be (to the parents, anyway) under a civilized health insurance system. Someone else paying for it does not make it “free.” I’m all for Vitamin K shots for newborns, but when you try to explain to the new parent that a cost-benefit analysis of this medical intervention comes down squarely on the side of opting for the shot and they say that Big Pharma just wants you to get it so they can profit, the fact that the money does not come out of their own pocket is irrelevant. “If they want your money, they are quacks” just doesn’t hold up. Even non-quacks still want to profit and the fact that a doctor, hospital, pharmaceutical company, etc. will profit from you making a particular choice does not automatically make it the wrong choice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/79 "2014-08-04T15:55:54Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Someone else paying for it does not make it “free.” > I’m all for Vitamin K shots for newborns, but when you try to explain to the new parent that a cost-benefit analysis of this medical intervention comes down squarely on the side of opting for the shot and they say that Big Pharma just wants you to get it so they can profit, the fact that the money does not come out of their own pocket is irrelevant. I’d be tempted to call child protective services if I heard a parent say that. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297/80 "2014-08-04T16:05:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d be tempted to call child protective services if I heard a parent say that. To tell them what? That there are ignorant parents out there? Believe me, they know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-ignorant-pigheaded-parents-who-refuse-vitamin-k-shots-for-their-newborns/694297.md?page=5)