# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2081 "2014-07-12T23:31:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The difference is, the Republicans _genuinely hate_ women and try every way they can to oppress, harm and kill women. That statement is total bullshit. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2082 "2014-07-12T23:36:46Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > The owner of my company (before it was bought up) is a Hindu. Would it have been okay for him to ban his employees from eating meat bought with money they had acquired from the company? > > Eating meat is against his religion. No, but it would be against the law for the government to make him buy you that meat. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2083 "2014-07-12T23:39:32Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > But my employer compensates me with a paycheck, which I choose to use to purchase something that violates his religion. > > Hobby Lobby compensates their employees with medical insurance which the employees may not use to purchase something that violates Hobby Lobby’s owners’ religion. > > Why the difference? In neither case is the religious person being asked to violate their own beliefs. The insurance covers contraception that the owners believe causes abortion. Prior to this year, Hobby Lobby bought really damn good insurance that didn’t cover these forms of contraception(but did cover all others). Believe it or not, having to pay for Ella out of their own pockets is not going to cause a public health crisis. It’s not even going to cause a crisis for a single woman working at Hobby Lobby. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2084 "2014-07-13T00:01:38Z")
No, in and of itself, it is not a big hairy ass deal. It has _implications_ that many of us find troubling, and make some of the rest of us hopping mad. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2085 "2014-07-13T00:04:03Z")
I’m glad someone finally pointed that out. But what are the implications? Seems to me they aren’t too serious unless you believe in something akin to a religion yourself, that the regulatory state must be all powerful. All that has been established here is that if you force an employer who actually owns his company and runs it in accordance with his beliefs to violate those beliefs, it better be for a really damn good reason and there must be no alternative ways to do it. I just don’t see what’s so wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2086 "2014-07-13T00:14:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > All that has been established here is that if you force an employer who actually owns his company and runs it in accordance with his beliefs to violate those beliefs, it better be for a really damn good reason and there must be no alternative ways to do it. I just don’t see what’s so wrong about that. I think the bright line falls between forcing a business owner to use birth control, and forcing a business owner to enable his employees to use birth control. The notion that it is sinful to pay for insurance that includes birth control is beyond ridiculous, and survives strict scrutiny, in my opinion. Religions cannot claim the divine right to control other people. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2087 "2014-07-13T00:17:04Z")
It’s not enabling. Hobby Lobby already enables its employees to use Ella by paying them. Hobby Lobby cannot be forced to buy them a policy which pays for it though. Especially since there was nothing wrong with the insurance Hobby Lobby already gave to their employees. It’s kinda hard to believe that a company that pre-ACA was doing a lot more for their employees on the health insurance front than most retailers is now a villain over a disagreement over one clause of ACA. What made them generous to their employees was precisely the belief system that Chuck Schumer insists shouldn’t be part of doing business. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2088 "2014-07-13T00:28:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hobby Lobby cannot be forced to buy them a policy which pays for it though. But that is not a legitimate religious objection. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2089 "2014-07-13T00:32:03Z")
If it is for a church that is incorporated, it is for a business. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2090 "2014-07-13T00:46:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If it is for a church that is incorporated, it is for a business. Only because five Catholic men said so. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2091 "2014-07-13T00:48:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That was my comparison too. Turnabout is fair play. The Republicans should say Democrats are waging a war against God. What does that even mean? Really. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2092 "2014-07-13T00:50:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Only because five Catholic men said so. Why does it not harm women terribly to give churches an exemption, but it’s a crime against women to give religious for profit business owners an exemption? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2093 "2014-07-13T00:55:43Z")
A War Against God!!! Dun-Dun-Dunnnnn! Will the Democrats kick Gog’s Ass?? Or Will the Omnipotent one kick the asses of the Democrats??? Stay tuned…It’s a War Against God! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2094 "2014-07-13T00:56:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Why does it not harm women terribly to give churches an exemption, but it’s a crime against women to give religious for profit business owners an exemption? Because corporations are not people. That is why business owners incorporate; to separate their personal liability from the business. That separation cuts both ways. You can’t hide behind incorporation when it suits you, then claim a corporation has religious beliefs when the ball swings the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2095 "2014-07-13T01:01:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The insurance covers contraception that the owners believe causes abortion. Their belief that the contraception causes abortion is about as meaningful as my belief that the pineapple I just ate caused me to undergo an abortion. It’s unscientific, vacuous crap. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2096 "2014-07-13T01:03:16Z")
Adaher, I’m seeing what you’re preaching. Now I get it. I’m going to kick god’s ass- fuck god. This is a war. Who does god think he is? God? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2097 "2014-07-13T01:04:05Z")
**Adaher** , honestly, just ask yourself the following question, and answer it with your best integrity: How are you going to feel when the Jewish, and the Muslim, and the Satanist corporations start trying to dictate to their employees benefits based upon their various religious beliefs? Shall we force non-Moslem female employees to wear veils at work? What if they are employer-supplied veils, so the workers don’t have to pay for them? Don’t you see _any_ troubling implications to "religious’ corporations? Will employees only be allowed to bring kosher food into the lunch room? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2098 "2014-07-13T01:06:04Z")
Employers already decide what your benefits are. Whether it’s motivated by their religion or not is immaterial to me. Employers are just as likely to give me MORE because of their religious beliefs as they are to give me less. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2099 "2014-07-13T01:10:04Z")
I’d also note that as a Jew, I automatically steer clear of overtly Christian businesses for employment. I need Saturday off, they close Sunday, we’re just not compatible in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2100 "2014-07-13T01:32:50Z")
What happens if you hold a war, but one side doesn’t show up? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=104) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=106)