# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 133
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2641 "2014-10-23T14:27:33Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > So, in 2004: > …In 2004, Bush’s bird flu czar was Stewart Simonson. He worked as an assistant secretary of health and human services for public health emergency preparedness. And although he had no medical experience or expertise in public health, he did enjoy a noted career as a Republican political insider. > from here: > [FLASHBACK: When Conservative Media Didn't Care Bush's Bird Flu Czar Had No Medical Experience | Media Matters for America](http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/10/20/flashback-when-conservative-media-didnt-care-bu/201229) > > Clothy, you joined in 2000. Show me in 2004 your outraged response to this bit of idiocy from Bush. Or admit you are an idiot. Either would be good. I assumed you’d been gone for so long because you were poring over your 2004 posts to prove that you are not a hypocritical moron, and would bring back your 2004 post(s) condemning Bush’s appointment of Simonson. Perhaps you forgot. I can wait. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2642 "2014-10-23T14:45:09Z")
Hey **Adaher** , same challenge to you. You were here then. Can you show us your howls of outrage at the appointment of Simonson? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2643 "2014-10-23T14:59:26Z")
…“Just look at the outside evaluations of the stimulus. Perhaps the best-known economic research firms are IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody’s [Economy.com](http://Economy.com). They all estimate that the bill has added 1.6 million to 1.8 million jobs so far and that its ultimate impact will be roughly 2.5 million jobs. The Congressional Budget Office, an independent agency, considers these estimates to be conservative.” From here: [Success of Stimulus Bill Is Noteworthy as Another Is Weighed - The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/business/economy/17leonhardt.html?_r=0) Nope, **Clothy** , still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2644 "2014-10-24T16:03:38Z")
On the lighter side, an idiot columnist for the Denver Post on the new train/bus station in Denver not being [diverse enough](http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_26742711/did-diversity-miss-train-union-stations-architecture). ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2645 "2014-10-24T16:10:37Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > On the lighter side, an idiot columnist for the Denver Post on the new train/bus station in Denver not being [diverse enough](http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_26742711/did-diversity-miss-train-union-stations-architecture). That’s a white person’s train station if I ever saw one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2646 "2014-10-24T17:20:21Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Hey **Adaher** , same challenge to you. You were here then. Can you show us your howls of outrage at the appointment of Simonson? I don’t see where **adaher** opposed this appointment on “not a doctor” grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2647 "2014-10-24T17:38:17Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > On the lighter side, an idiot columnist for the Denver Post on the new train/bus station in Denver not being [diverse enough](http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_26742711/did-diversity-miss-train-union-stations-architecture). Did you read the article? It is about the old historic station that was converted into a high end mall and how it appears to cater to a much less diverse clientele than would be expected. Is the dumb idea that a publicly owned space should reflect the diversity of the public it serves? Or that the architecture could be part of the cause? I think the first is perfectly valid line of consideration. Is it less diverse just because it is high end, or is less diverse than the upper middle class in general in the city? Who had input into which stores and restaurants would come in? The second is a little more problematic. I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely that, assuming the less than scientific surveys are truly representative, the chief cause is the way the building looks. I would guess that the lack of inclusion of elements of the more diverse culture is more a symptom than the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2648 "2014-10-24T18:01:49Z")
“Hey, dawg, you wanna hit up Union Station?” “Nah, man, I don’t play that Greco-Roman shit.” Seems a bit of a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2649 "2014-10-24T18:27:51Z")
Yeah, everyone knows minorities are all about post modern design. Bauhaus however is making inroads into the hood but many feel it could be embraced in an ironic sense and not an actual appreciation of it’s design elements. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2650 "2014-10-24T23:28:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t see where **adaher** opposed this appointment on “not a doctor” grounds. Adaher: An ex cabinet official, governor, or even mayor would be better for that than a career political operative. Campaigns are much smaller operations and he never actually ran a campaign. He’s spent most of his time as chief of staff or a lower level staffer. His highest position was as Biden’s chief of staff. Exactly how big is the VP’s staff and what do they really have to do? Post 2630. Not explictly, but in a ‘but he’s an administrator’ kinda way. Still want to see how he responded to Bush’s Bird Flu czar. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2651 "2014-10-25T03:41:41Z")
Where to begin. How about government grants for any of the following: Watching grass grow in Florida Teaching college students to laugh A cultural exchange for “nose flutists” Humiliating terrorists with angry tweets Studying “hangry” (hungry and angry) spouses as they stick pins into voodoo dolls Teaching monkeys to play video games to unlock the secrets of free will Studying the effect of Swedish foot massage on rabbits > **[Sen. Coburn's 'Wastebook' has no likes](https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-kass-met-1024-20141023-column.html)** > > Kass: Would you believe the federal government spent nearly $400,000 for bunny foot rubs? Me neither ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2652 "2014-10-25T03:50:27Z")
I can’t speak to any of the items on that list, but it echoes the old Golden Fleece award Senator Proxmire used to give out. Except that he was full of crap. He’d condemn things like, “Paying people to sort rabbit poop” or the like…without the context: studying signs of malnutrition in rabbits on variant feeding programs, to measure caloric intake. i.e., legitimate science, which he would spin to make sound foolish. I’ll bet a pickle that some of the items you just listed are, in fact, valid and productive, and the article’s writer simply isolated parts of the studies’ descriptions to make them sound more foolish than they are. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2653 "2014-10-25T05:07:42Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Where to begin. How about government grants for any of the following: Let’s have a look at a few of those, shall we? And rather than use a crappy Chicago Tribune link that requires registration, why don’t we go directly to Senator Coburn’s [2014 Wastebook](http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2014/10/wastebook-2014-what-washington-doesn-t-want-you-to-read). You can download the full document (PDF) from that web page. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Watching grass grow in Florida Here’s what the Wastebook tells us about this project: > [@](#): > > The Department of Interior’s U.S. Fish > and Wildlife Service is spending $10,000 on > the project being conducted in the Guana > Tolomato-Matanzas preserve by the Florida > Department of Environmental Protection > (FDEP). The money will “cover the cost to > monitor grasses, restore two acres as a > demonstration and publish a guide on best > practices for cultivating the cordgrass, known > formally as Spartina alterniflora." > > p. 14 What the Wastebook fails to reveal, but can be found in one of the [sources](http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-08-11/story/guana-marsh-research-sheds-new-light-old-florida-environment) they use for the report, is that the grass in question is a crucial component of an estuarine region that generates millions of dollars in economic activity every year: > [@](#): > > The grass is the foundation for a whole web of marsh life that brings both work and play to the region. > > The marsh in the Guana Tolomato Matanzas National Estuarine Research Reserve – Small’s office is there, though she manages preserves up through Duval and Nassau counties – supports estuaries used by commercially important types of shrimp, grouper, seabass, snapper and flounder, as well as sport fish such as snook, drum, tarpon and pompano. > > The Guana estuaries hold most of the $246 million in annual value the reserve was estimated a few years ago to add to the region through functions like controlling erosion, sheltering wildlife, pollinating plants and cleaning and controlling water that flows through the area’s waterways. Spending $10,000 to help preserve a quarter-billion dollar annual resource? Sounds like a pretty wise use of government money to me. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Teaching college students to laugh Complete misrepresentation. The Senator’s own report belies the dishonest title. These are not “laughing classes.” One of the two course funded is described thus in the report: > [@](#): > > The seminar, called “Why Is It Funny” will “examine > issues such as how laughter plays with our > perceptions, the appeal of subversive humor, > whether comedy is ‘a guy thing,’ the role of > laughter in civic discourse, and whether we > can laugh at war.” In addition to readings > from Aristotle, Shakespeare, and Oscar Wilde, > students will watch classic films and episodes > of M_A_S\*H. > > p. 35 I understand that some might find this sort of stuff pointless, but unless you’re just an ignoramus who believes that all liberal arts education is a waste of time, then this class is no less valuable than any other humanities class in teaching students skills of analysis, critical thinking, writing, argumentation, etc., etc. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > A cultural exchange for “nose flutists” Another horrendously dishonest title. The $90 million in alleged waste here is devoted to State Department programs in cultural exchange. According to the Department’s own [website](http://eca.state.gov/about-bureau), the aim of the Educational and Cultural Affairs Bureau is: > [@](#): > > to build friendly, peaceful relations between the people of the United States and the people of other countries through academic, cultural, sports, and professional exchanges, as well as public -private partnerships. Given the amount that we spend spying on, bombing, shooting and threatening people around the world, spending ninety million on some good relations seems like small potatoes. As for the alleged “nose flutist” exchange, the report is here referring to a $1.5 million musical exchange program that features: > [@](#): > > public concerts, interactive performances with > local traditional musicians, lecture > demonstrations, workshops, jam sessions and > media interviews and performances. > > p. 20 One of the participants last year was apparently a nose flutist. Big fucking deal. Note also that the total cost of the three examples given above is just over $90 million, and the total cost of all of Senator Coburn’s alleged boondoggles comes to about $25 billion. I wonder if he was as concerned about spending $10 billion a month in Iraq a decade ago, or with the $4-6 trillion projected cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? And that doesn’t even include the newest efforts against ISIS, which [Coburn strongly supports](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tom-coburn-calls-isis-threat-spilled-milk/article/2553133). One of the biggest single areas of waste, according to the report, is $4.2 billion lost to identity thieves “stealing tax returns from unsuspecting taxpayers.” The IRS should, of course, do everything possible to prevent this, but a [GAO Report](http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/665368.pdf) (PDF) on the problem notes that some of the measures it recommends to combat fraud, including things like adjusting W-2 deadlines and delaying refunds, would also leave the IRS open to criticism for placing greater burdens on employers, and also for hanging onto taxpayers’ money. In addition, the law requires that the IRS pay interest on refunds not issued within 45 days, meaning that one of the measures designed to prevent fraud could also end up costing the government extra money in interest payments (see esp. pp. 14-24 of the report). Another large area of waste that is dishonestly represented in the report headlines is $3 billion allegedly spent on “Golf Club Testing, Elementary School Experiments Aboard the International Space Station.” Of course, these little experiments constitute a tiny portion of the $3 billion that the US spends on the ISS. There are reasonable debates to be had over US spending on the space station, but dishonesty is not the place to begin those conversations. I lost interest in following up on the rest of the stupid claims, but the blatant misrepresentation is the main takeaway from Coburn’s report. Reasonable people can disagree over the need for programs like this, and there are intelligent debates to be had over what the government spends money on, and how much it needs to spend in total. But it seems that Senator Coburn is more interested in dishonest sensationalizing than in rational discussion, and when the whole debate is couched in such dishonest terms, it’s hard to take the person making the claims seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2654 "2014-10-25T12:59:11Z")
Fucking awesome post, mhendo. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2655 "2014-10-25T14:33:39Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Where to begin. How about government grants for any of the following:… > … Studying “hangry” (hungry and angry) spouses as they stick pins into voodoo dolls > > [et cetera. Imagine it all said snarkily by Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter] > [@mhendo](#): > > [very large amount of real information. Unfortunately, it would take much work by Jon Stewart’s team to make it humorous, and the jokes would appeal only to intelligent people] Stupid liberal idea of the day? To imagine that dolts like **D’Anconia** have the capability or desire to fight their own ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2656 "2014-10-25T14:44:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Another large area of waste that is dishonestly represented in the report headlines is $3 billion allegedly spent on “Golf Club Testing, Elementary School Experiments Aboard the International Space Station.” I can picture silly experiments like this being considered necessary for the mental health of the station crew, i.e. giving them a chance to do something that isn’t mission-critical or stressful, just kinda fun. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2657 "2014-10-25T15:45:44Z")
Thanks mhendo for taking on the task. It is pretty much always the case with these fucking things. I wish conservatives weren’t such reliable liars. If deceit and ignorance were my stock in trade, my conscience would be troubled. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2658 "2014-10-25T23:31:33Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Let’s have a look at a few of those, shall we? And rather than use a crappy Chicago Tribune link that requires registration That link doesn’t require registration. In fact, I just double-checked, and it works fine for me. Sorry that your browser sucks. > [@](#): > > These are not “laughing classes.” I understand that some might find this sort of stuff pointless. There’s no might about it. It’s de facto pointless. If colleges want to offer such nonsense, and pay “teachers” to run them, and the students pay for that, no skin off my nose. But why should the government take other people’s money to pay for that crap? > [@](#): > > One of the participants last year was apparently a nose flutist. Big fucking deal. That’s nice, except that in the real world, _there’s no such thing as a nose flutist_. > [@](#): > > And that doesn’t even include the newest efforts against ISIS, which [Coburn strongly supports](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tom-coburn-calls-isis-threat-spilled-milk/article/2553133). Do you mean like how Obama strongly supports it? I haven’t seen your criticism of the President. I don’t expect I ever will. > [@](#): > > Another large area of waste that is dishonestly represented in the report headlines is $3 billion allegedly spent on “Golf Club Testing, Elementary School Experiments Aboard the International Space Station.” Of course, these little experiments constitute a tiny portion of the $3 billion that the US spends on the ISS. “Just a tiny portion” is no excuse for wasting taxpayer money. Were you against the IRS Star Trek video? I’m sure that was a tiny portion of the overall IRS budget. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2659 "2014-10-26T01:06:09Z")
Relevant article on this subject from last year: [Why I Study Duck Genitalia](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/04/duck_penis_controversy_nsf_is_right_to_fund_basic_research_that_conservatives.html) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/2660 "2014-10-26T01:13:39Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Let’s have a look at a few of those, shall we? … > [@Bayard](#): > > Fucking awesome post, mhendo. Well done. Aye, that was fucking awesome; there is no other phrase that is even close to adequate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=132) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=134)