# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 164
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3261 "2015-03-12T03:08:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Did Rice use her own server, giving her complete control over what correspondence to save? That’s the key. If she just used her own ISP, then the ISP has the emails. Clinton used an email server so that she would have control. Really? I would be surprised if my ISP kept every e-mail forever, I think they actually delete them when I delete them (assuming they do not have a NSA hold on my account). ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3262 "2015-03-12T03:21:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Did Rice use her own server, giving her complete control over what correspondence to save? That’s the key. If she just used her own ISP, then the ISP has the emails. Clinton used an email server so that she would have control. I guess I sorta expected you to know the answer to the question you pose, since you’ve apparently already judged Hillary’s violation as significantly worse. I honestly don’t know, I’m not much of a geek on my best, hell, I’m barely what Tron would have considered a ‘user’. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3263 "2015-03-12T03:32:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Really? I would be surprised if my ISP kept every e-mail forever, I think they actually delete them when I delete them (assuming they do not have a NSA hold on my account). Depends on the ISP. They do make backups of your email though, they need to in order for them to restore it if servers should fail on their end. but I don’t know how long they keep those backups. As with anything on the internet, never assume that anything is permanently deleted. Clinton didn’t. But she did make sure that her private server did make anything she deleted unrecoverable. That’s document destruction, unless we believe that she honestly only deleted personal emails. So I guess you just have to trust her. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3264 "2015-03-12T03:33:52Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > I guess I sorta expected you to know the answer to the question you pose, since you’ve apparently already judged Hillary’s violation as significantly worse. I honestly don’t know, I’m not much of a geek on my best, hell, I’m barely what Tron would have considered a ‘user’. I’m not even sure it’s really a violation. Violation would imply that she broke the law, and she doesn’t break the law. At least not in any way you can prove. That’s part of the problem, you can’t prove wrongdoing if records are withheld, and that’s her normal MO whenever she’s faced with accusations. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3265 "2015-03-12T03:43:57Z")
NY Times reports that experts are skeptical that she could have used personal email and not sent classified information. Of course, that’s a problem for Rice or Powell too. [http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2015%2F03%2F12%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fno-classified-emails-by-clinton-some-experts-are-skeptical.html%3F\_r%3D0](http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2015%2F03%2F12%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fno-classified-emails-by-clinton-some-experts-are-skeptical.html%3F_r%3D0) But it’s a bigger problem for Clinton, and not just because she’s running for President. It’s because she expects us to believe that her and her lawyer’s judgement was trustworthy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3266 "2015-03-12T04:07:04Z")
Well, now that you mention Ms. Rice… I have a number of, ah,… _issues_ with how she conducted her office and her effect on US foreign policy. But I freely admit that the security of her communications is not one of them. She wins _that_ point. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3267 "2015-03-12T09:41:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s document destruction, unless we believe that she honestly only deleted personal emails. So I guess you just have to trust her. How is that different from every other government employee who uses email? If Hillary had a government account for business email and a private account for personal email, you still have to trust her, and every other government employee, to keep the two separate. What are you going to do, subpoena every personal email account of every government employee, just make sure there were no business emails on the personal account? Or just Hillary? Yes, at some point you have to just trust her, the same as every other government employee. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3268 "2015-03-12T09:48:26Z")
Are there State Department employees who don’t have a government email address and use their personal email instead? I mean besides the one who had to resign. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3269 "2015-03-12T09:58:06Z")
It is still a matter of trust. Having two accounts doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3270 "2015-03-12T10:09:16Z")
Ah, yes. And the reason Clinton needed total control over her email to an unusual extent, even for a Secretary of State, was because she had nothing to hide. That’s also why she told easily checked lies at her press conference. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3271 "2015-03-12T10:56:11Z")
Ah yes, we know she has something to hide, because she hasn’t revealed it yet! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3272 "2015-03-12T11:03:51Z")
And that’s why the AP is suing. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3273 "2015-03-12T12:52:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s about national security, but more importantly it’s about transparency. Like I said, the Clintons never cross the line. Any scandal about them by definition is going to be relatively minor. The issue is that there are so many of them, and I don’t think there’s anyone here who thinks this will be the last. And no, they aren’t all made up. Nearly every Clinton scandal in history was broken by the MSM, not the right-wing. Including the latest two. There will be more, and the Clintons will continue to react with obsessive secrecy. She said pretty directly that we don’t get to see those emails. **Plus she lied, claiming they were between her and her husband in some cases, when he doesn’t use email. She also lied about the convenience of the devices, insisting she wanted everything on one. Yet she has bragged before about how many devices she possesses.** Which gets to the other issue: the coverup is always worse than the crime, and the Clintons obsessively cover up. And that’s where they get stupid, because minor scandals go away quickly: unless you try to cover them up. This is so much parsing of what she says to try to manufacture outrage. I have an iPad, iPhone and a laptop…I could brag about that all day at some nerd conference to show how plugged in I am. I could also say I’ve set up my iPhone to have all of my emails go through my iPhone, since 95% of my personal emails and web surfing is on the iPhone due to convenience. Those two statements don’t negate each other. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3274 "2015-03-12T13:03:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And that’s why the AP is suing. They won’t get anywhere. The server was originally Bill Clinton’s. Since he still gets national security reports, no court is going to give a reporter carte blanche to go fishing in their server. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3275 "2015-03-12T13:16:56Z")
Wouldn’t matter anyway, since she deleted the emails. However, the lawsuit can still be won symbolically, and of course the AP can ruin Clinton’s campaign if they decide to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3276 "2015-03-12T13:21:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Wouldn’t matter anyway, since she deleted the emails. However, the lawsuit can still be won symbolically… If they don’t win a legal judgment, how will we know if they win symbolically? > [@](#): > > …and of course the AP can ruin Clinton’s campaign if they decide to do so. I presume the AP is interested in the truth, not simply partisan desire to destroy candidates. I give them credit for having higher journalistic ethics than Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3277 "2015-03-12T13:23:00Z")
I’m sure the media thinks they are being fair, but an angry media is not a fun thing for a candidate to deal with, as Clinton found out in 2008 and looks poised to again in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3278 "2015-03-12T14:02:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Since [Bill Clinton] still gets national security reports, … He does? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3279 "2015-03-12T14:15:12Z")
**Adaher** : “…And the reason Clinton needed total control over her email to an unusual extent, even for a Secretary of State…” _This_ is the part I don’t think you’ve actually established. Are you just repeating talking points, or do you have any _actual evidence comparing_ the last 3 SOS’s email usage details that enables you to draw such a conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3280 "2015-03-12T15:42:47Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Are you just repeating talking points It often appears he’s \*inventing \*them on the fly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=163) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=165)