# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 167
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3321 "2015-03-20T12:54:07Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > In all fairness, that’s not at all what he said. On re-reading, you are quite right; I conflated his comments with those of all the UKIPpers I’ve been dealing with lately who are indeed asserting that they’ll be sweeping into Parliament in great numbers come May (I’m assuming they think “up to 4” is a great number). I shall apologize for whatever minor slight may have been perceived, but the general point stands on its own anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3322 "2015-03-20T15:41:43Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Thank you, **Miller** , for so eloquently arguing my case for me. Your retarded little comment is the kind of booger-eating bullshit that I have to put up with all the time. I could post something as fundamental as “oxygen is necessary for life” and you mouth-breathing morons would be posting shit like “Oh, dat Clothahump, he so dumb” instead of trying to (intelligently) debate what I said. You can’t intelligently debate a dog. No matter how carefully you marshal you’re arguments, he’s just not going to get the point. And, to be clear, I don’t say you’re dumb because you hold conservative positions. Lots of smart conservatives out there, after all - plenty of them smarter than me. I say you’re dumb because you routinely make basic errors of fact, and cling to them like a tick in the face of repeated correction. Debating with you is like debating Emily Litella, except Emily at least had the self awareness to eventually back down. > [@](#): > > And this is why I laugh at you. I shouldn’t, I suppose - it’s not nice to make fun of the mentally challenged. But damn, you make it soooo easy. Yes, when I read your posts, I try to keep in mind that I’m reading a guy who’s spent a large portion of his life getting kicked in the head, and that he’s probably doing the best he can with what functional gray matter he has left to him. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3323 "2015-03-20T16:18:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You can’t intelligently debate a dog. No matter how carefully you marshal you’re arguments, he’s just not going to get the point. And, to be clear, I don’t say you’re dumb because you hold conservative positions. Lots of smart conservatives out there, after all - plenty of them smarter than me. I say you’re dumb because you routinely make basic errors of fact, and cling to them like a tick in the face of repeated correction. Debating with you is like debating Emily Litella, except Emily at least had the self awareness to eventually back down. > > Yes, when I read your posts, I try to keep in mind that I’m reading a guy who’s spent a large portion of his life getting kicked in the head, and that he’s probably doing the best he can with what functional gray matter he has left to him. Totally wrong on both counts. But then again, I expect nothing less from you. I sure as hell don’t expect anything more. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3324 "2015-03-20T16:21:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Totally wrong on both counts. No worries. I understand that repeated concussions can do a real number on the ol’ memory. You probably can’t even remember half the things you’ve said around here ten minutes after you’ve posted them. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3325 "2015-03-20T16:24:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > … I expect nothing less from you. I sure as hell don’t expect anything more. Ooh, I wouldn’t like that; it would take all the mystery out of life. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3326 "2015-03-20T16:28:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I say you’re dumb because you routinely make basic errors of fact, and cling to them like a tick in the face of repeated correction. > [@Clothahump](#): > > Totally wrong on both counts. But then again, I expect nothing less from you. I sure as hell don’t expect anything more. QED ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3327 "2015-03-20T16:29:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What in the wide world of sports are you babbling about? For the last 13 years, you have enjoyed the lowest tax rates of the last 60 years, which are the direct cause of the deficit spending that produced the $18 trillion debt you abhor. You are just plain ignorant if you think government taxes you too much. If all you look at is the income tax rate, I would agree with you. But let’s take into consideration all the hidden taxes that we pay. When we do, yeah - the government taxes us way the hell too much at all levels from federal down to local. [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-real-tax-rate-is-higher-than-you-think-2014-08-12](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-real-tax-rate-is-higher-than-you-think-2014-08-12) > **[How much tax do we really pay?](https://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html)** Oh, and by the way - the tax rates are not the direct cause of the deficit. Irresponsible spending by the government is. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3328 "2015-03-20T16:30:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > If all you look at is the income tax rate, I would agree with you. But let’s take into consideration all the hidden taxes that we pay. When we do, yeah - the government taxes us way the hell too much at all levels from federal down to local. > > [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-real-tax-rate-is-higher-than-you-think-2014-08-12](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-real-tax-rate-is-higher-than-you-think-2014-08-12) > > [How much tax do we really pay?](http://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html) > > Oh, and by the way - the tax rates are not the direct cause of the deficit. Irresponsible spending by the government is. Like those wars in the Middle East? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3329 "2015-03-21T03:13:34Z")
You know guys, taxes can be historically low, but still too high. For most people, taxes at all levels are their single largest bill, or the second largest next to housing costs. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3330 "2015-03-21T03:22:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You know guys, taxes can be historically low, but still too high. For most people, taxes at all levels are their single largest bill, or the second largest next to housing costs. And that buys you an army, and roads, and you won’t starve to death when you’re too old to work. If taxes are historically low, bitching about them is historically stupid. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3331 "2015-03-21T03:28:12Z")
It buys a lot more than that. And almost none of it is pursued with any sense of trying to get good value. Notice how we’ve kept spending flat for four years now and yet we still have roads, still have Social Security, and still have the biggest military in the world. Amazing what government agencies can do when they don’t get automatic increases every year. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3332 "2015-03-21T03:32:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It buys a lot more than that. And almost none of it is pursued with any sense of trying to get good value. Since when has that ever been the case? It should be but why are you so concerned about it _now_? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3333 "2015-03-21T03:35:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It buys a lot more than that. And almost none of it is pursued with any sense of trying to get good value. > > Notice how we’ve kept spending flat for four years now and yet we still have roads, still have Social Security, and still have the biggest military in the world. Amazing what government agencies can do when they don’t get automatic increases every year. Roads (and bridges) don’t last forever. Nor does our electrical infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3334 "2015-03-21T03:40:51Z")
Quite true. Perhaps if existing infrastructure funds were dedicated more to maintenance than new projects… But that’s the problem with spending, it’s about politics, not value or good sense. New projects employ more people and create better photo ops than the boring work of maintaining a bridge so it doesn’t collapse. [http://www.citylab.com/cityfixer/2015/02/americas-infrastructure-crisis-is-really-a-maintenance-crisis/385452/](http://www.citylab.com/cityfixer/2015/02/americas-infrastructure-crisis-is-really-a-maintenance-crisis/385452/) > [@](#): > > It’s long been time to focus more on maintaining America’s existing roads and less on building new ones. The National Highway System already connects virtually all of the areas worth connecting. Driving peaked circa 2004—and even earlier in some states. Traffic remains bad in many metros, but by itself expanding road networks can only temporarily alleviate the problem, and over time might even increase it. > > And yet we build. We build without seeming to appreciate that every mile of fresh new road will one day become a mile of crumbling old road that needs additional attention. We build even though our pot of road funding requires increasingly creative (and arguably illegal) solutions to stay anything other than empty. > > The numbers tell the story best. From 2004 to 2008, states dedicated just 43 percent of their road budgets to maintain existing roads despite the fact that they made up nearly 99 percent of the road system. The other 1 percent—new construction—got more than half the money. From 2009 to 2011 states did only marginally better, spending 55 percent of their road money ($20.4 billion) on expansion and just 45 percent on maintenance ($16.5 billion): ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3335 "2015-03-21T05:37:53Z")
We have a huge problem with decaying infrastructure. But fixing infrastructure is not “sexy” and bores the voters. If we would start doing what has to be done, the number of jobs created would dwarf any that the Keystone pipeline would create. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3336 "2015-03-22T05:15:56Z")
> [@](#): > > The numbers tell the story best. From 2004 to 2008, states dedicated just 43 percent of their road budgets to maintain existing roads despite the fact that they made up nearly 99 percent of the road system. The other 1 percent—new construction—got more than half the money. From 2009 to 2011 states did only marginally better, spending 55 percent of their road money ($20.4 billion) on expansion and just 45 percent on maintenance ($16.5 billion) Doesn’t it cost much less to maintain an existing road than to build a new one? You have to plan it out, buy up the land, build up low ground or blast and remove hills, create intersections, over and underpasses for other streets and railways, etc. I imagine that all costs a lot more than roto-milling and repaving. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3337 "2015-03-22T05:29:05Z")
It does, but you should never assume that governments aren’t allocating money politically first, usefully second. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3338 "2015-03-22T06:01:05Z")
Totally Bush’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3339 "2015-03-25T14:44:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No worries. I understand that repeated concussions can do a real number on the ol’ memory. You probably can’t even remember half the things you’ve said around here ten minutes after you’ve posted them. Miller, just fuck off, okay? I really don’t have time to put up with your drooling, moronic bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3340 "2015-03-25T14:45:59Z")
That was definitely worth the five day wait. I’d been anticipating it all weekend! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=166) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=168)