# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 182
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3621 "2015-07-15T00:25:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Forrest was a special kind of evil and regarded as such by many even in his time. > > I don’t think that example should be applied to most other Confederate soldiers though. If we truly regard Abe Lincoln as one of our greatest Presidents than we shouldn’t be so arrogant as to substitute our modern sensibilities for his wisdom. He felt it best to forgive the rebels and subsequent governments took no issue with the Confederates honoring their dead. We’re free to judge the Confederacy more harshly if we want, but we shouldn’t take irrevocable steps to overrule the judgement of our ancestors because we think we’re smarter and better somehow. These people fought and died for their country(talking about the Union leaders here) and let the rebels be honored. We didn’t fight that fight. So leave Gen. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and the men who fought for them alone. > > But Forrest, yeah, fuck him. The best thing is to surround Bedford’s grave with many statues of Robert E. That way you can’t see the Forrest for the Lees. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3622 "2015-07-15T00:41:50Z")
\ ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3623 "2015-07-15T01:38:53Z")
[http://wjbf.com/2015/07/13/naacp-calls-for-stone-mountain-carving-to-be-removed/](http://wjbf.com/2015/07/13/naacp-calls-for-stone-mountain-carving-to-be-removed/) While I wouldn’t call the Atlanta NAACP’s request to be a stupid liberal idea, I think it falls under the category of “something we shouldn’t mess with”. Native Americans have just as big a beef with the Union and Confederacy alike and can make a very strong case to have many of our important historical figures removed from monuments and parks. I’d imagine it won’t be long after that FDR becomes persona non grata. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3624 "2015-07-15T04:41:55Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Why do you hate the ocean?!!? > > (I know. But it was inevitable, wasn’t it?) 😉 > > I have a friend whose family is multi-generational Memphis. He just posted a lengthy Facebook note supporting the removal. I’m taking his word for the general feelings of Memphis-ians. Oh, and if it matters, he’s fishbelly white from a long line of ‘good ol’ boys’ (I knew his daddy). I’m from Memphis and have no problem with moving the Forrests back to Elmwood Cemetery. That is where he asked to be buried after all. Elmwood is the oldest cemetery in Memphis and full of historical figures. His grave will be added to the tour and people will learn his true history. That’s how it should be, not a park and statue glorifying a despicable human being. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3625 "2015-07-15T05:04:10Z")
There is a bill before the California state legislature which will remove the names of Confederate military leaders and officials from public buildings, etc. This would include two Robert E. Lee elementary schools in Southern California. But the town of Fort Bragg, in Northern California, is named for Braxton Bragg, and the bill was amended so as not to require the town to change its name. But the question still arises as to whether the city’s official buildings will have to change their names. The bill is expected to pass. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3626 "2015-07-15T05:39:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …I’d imagine it won’t be long after that FDR becomes persona non grata. We warned you about “bath salts”. See what happens when you don’t listen? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3627 "2015-07-15T06:23:41Z")
Sounds crazy in 2015. Won’t sound so crazy when all the other old dragons have been slayed and Japanese-Americans want theirs slain too. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3628 "2015-07-15T15:38:54Z")
It is important to note that the Confederate memorials are to traitors who wanted to leave the US and started a war to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3629 "2015-07-15T19:07:35Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > It is important to note that the Confederate memorials are to traitors who wanted to leave the US and started a war to do so. That’s carpetbagger talk! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3630 "2015-07-16T01:46:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The best thing is to surround Bedford’s grave with many statues of Robert E. > > That way you can’t see the Forrest for the Lees. The “Lees”? As in that left-over shit at the bottom of the wine cask? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3631 "2015-07-16T06:55:02Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > It is important to note that the Confederate memorials are to traitors who wanted to leave the US and started a war to do so. And Lincoln chose to pardon them, and future administrations chose to allow them to be honored. Secondly, be careful about using the word traitor in that context. It may become desirable in the future for a state or states to secede for non-awful reasons. There is still no legally binding precedent that says a state can’t secede. It’s all about force and the willingness of DC to use force. Which is unlikely in the future, absent a morally compelling issue like slavery or perhaps a dictatorship in a state government. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3632 "2015-07-16T09:15:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And Lincoln chose to pardon them, … Lincoln didn’t pardon any of them. He got shot. Remember? Murdered, assassinated, by one of these fucking honorable Southern gentlemen you’re so hot to support. > [@](#): > > Secondly, be careful about using the word traitor in that context. Go fuck a cactus, you appeaser. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3633 "2015-07-16T09:30:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Secondly, be careful about using the word traitor in that context. If taking up arms against the country doesn’t maker one a traitor, what does? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3634 "2015-07-16T11:07:08Z")
Strangely, we don’t prosecute Americans who attack government targets as traitors. Helping the enemy, that’s treason. Taking up arms on your own is rebellion. Or terrorism. Or “workplace violence” as the Obama administration called it at one point. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3635 "2015-07-16T12:12:58Z")
Other than the workplace violence, Mrs. Lincoln… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3636 "2015-07-16T12:52:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And Lincoln chose to pardon them, and future administrations chose to allow them to be honored. And you know why, and you know how we’ve evolved since then, too. > [@](#): > > It may become desirable in the future for a state or states to secede for non-awful reasons. Interesting thought. What sort of reasons might those be? > [@](#): > > There is still no legally binding precedent that says a state can’t secede. [Texas v. White.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White) > [@](#): > > It’s all about force and the willingness of DC to use force. You really have been swallowing the crazy, haven’t you? It’s about democracy and law. > [@](#): > > Which is unlikely in the future, absent a morally compelling issue like slavery or perhaps a dictatorship in a state government. You’re serious, aren’t you? You’re really serious! ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3637 "2015-07-16T12:59:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There is still no legally binding precedent that says a state can’t secede. There’s the Supreme Court ruling in Texas v White (1869) that states lack a constitutional right to unilaterally secede. In **adaher** ’s defense, as we’ve seen in the response to this year’s same-sex marriage ruling, a lot of conservatives don’t seem to think Supreme Court decisions are legally binding for them. (Seem to have been ninja’ed while typing. Oh well.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3638 "2015-07-16T13:06:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Strangely, we don’t prosecute Americans who attack government targets as traitors. Mostly because it is an unusual charge and it is simply easier and more efficient to nail domestic terrorists on the more mundane charges. Honestly, how many DAs have actual experience in prosecuting treason charges? There have only been around [12 convictions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_treason#United_States) in the US over our history. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3639 "2015-07-16T13:14:30Z")
Remember that adaher consistently ranks among the top SDMB posters in the “factually wrong” category. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/3640 "2015-07-16T13:27:50Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Lincoln didn’t pardon any of them. He got shot. Remember? Murdered, assassinated, by one of these fucking honorable Southern gentlemen you’re so hot to support. Umm… John Wilkes Booth wasn’t a Southern aristocrat, he was a sympathizer from Maryland who worked as an actor. As for Lincoln did or did not do, he did NOT order that every man who ever wore rebel gray was to be hanged or shot- which he would have been completely within his authority to do, given the ancient and respected precedent for the fate of traitors. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And you know why, and you know how we’ve evolved since then, too. Spell it out for us please. > [@](#): > > It’s about democracy and law. Which at the time were in direct opposition to each other. While a credible case can be made that an indissoluble union was implicit in the federal Constitution, it was never spelled out. For example, Article One Section Ten, which lists the things the states are explicitly forbidden to do, says nothing about secession. And millions of southerners overwhelming supported secession- direct democracy in action. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=181) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=183)