# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 201
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4001 "2015-10-07T05:11:58Z")
You opened up an intriguing line of conjecture, but then bailed. Were you about to boldly rip the mask off the liberal conspiracy to disarm America? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4002 "2015-10-07T05:13:38Z")
It’s not exactly a conspiracy. They’ve done it in places where they have the votes, until the Supreme Court struck down such laws. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4003 "2015-10-07T05:19:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They aren’t very good at those either. And it’s not as if most of the people favoring these gun laws don’t have ulterior motives. They don’t want to keep guns just out of the hands of criminals. …Yeah, and we’re usually pretty open about that, too. > [@adaher](#): > > What makes liberal ideas on guns dumb is that none of it matters. Either they deceitfully see these steps as a beginning that will lead to 1970s-style restrictions on firearms ownership, or they are just stupid, because none of these proposals will make a dime’s worth of difference. > > I favor a lot of these changes, they are actually common sense reforms. But I also favor voter ID laws, and they are equally effective at achieving their goals. Oh look, another _lawyer_. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4004 "2015-10-07T13:19:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > …Yeah, and we’re usually pretty open about that, too. > . Ironic. Gun deaths are overwhelmingly committed by criminals, right? In blue States? Urban areas? Funny, we never see gun control threads due to the um-teen inner-city deaths of the past week, yet it’s always the rural “cowboys” that are the problem… ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4005 "2015-10-07T13:37:18Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > …Yeah, and we’re usually pretty open about that, too. You are? Whenever someone on the pro-gun side mentions that whatever is being proposed is just “the first step”, the response usually involves a reference to the slippery slope fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4006 "2015-10-07T13:48:01Z")
I’m sure there are some who favor only “common sense” limitations, but it’s not hard to find articles written by prominent liberals claiming that the 2nd amendment confers no individual right to own guns. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s pretty out in the open. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4007 "2015-10-07T13:48:50Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Gun deaths are overwhelmingly committed by criminals, right? **In blue States?** Urban areas? Other than having that totally backwards, [close](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-rates-of-gun-deaths/). ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4008 "2015-10-07T14:41:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Other than having that totally backwards, [close](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-rates-of-gun-deaths/). Note that your linked article claims to show “age-adjusted firearm deaths per 100,000 population” (based on questionable hospital-related data – read the comments), not the actual number of corpses, and makes the more sparsely-populated states appear worse. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4009 "2015-10-07T15:24:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m sure there are some who favor only “common sense” limitations, but it’s not hard to find articles written by prominent liberals claiming that the 2nd amendment confers no individual right to own guns. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s pretty out in the open. Since that was the overwhelming majority view for about 200 years, that should not be surprising. > [@inscrutable](#): > > Note that your linked article claims to show “age-adjusted firearm deaths per 100,000 population” (based on questionable hospital-related data – read the comments), not the actual number of corpses, and makes the more sparsely-populated states appear worse. It doesn’t make them “appear worse.” It demonstrates that they _are_ worse. Unless you think they should get credit for not shooting anyone in an empty desert. Really, though, it shows that the God-and-Jesus-lovin’, fag-hating, gun-toting South is worst of all. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4010 "2015-10-07T15:39:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Since that was the overwhelming majority view for about 200 years, that should not be surprising. 200 years? To the best of my knowledge the principle that owning weapons was an inherent right of free men was reiterated and upheld at least through the Civil War. The first major decision I’m aware of that limited the right to own and carry guns was _Presser v. Iliinois_ in 1886. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4011 "2015-10-07T15:53:29Z")
Whether it was an “inherent right of free men” is unrelated to the issue of whether the Second Amendment conferred or protected that right. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4012 "2015-10-07T15:55:50Z")
It does, or else it doesn’t make any sense. If you only have the “right” to bear arms as part of a militia, then that’s not a right, that’s a duty. And last I checked, it’s not the Bill of Duties. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4013 "2015-10-07T17:05:57Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Had you bothered to read the link, you would have seen this: Did you read the McDonalds lawsuit? When you admit you were pig-fuckingly wrong about that and McD’s was at fault and it wasn’t a frivolous lawsuit, come back and we’ll talk again ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4014 "2015-10-07T17:12:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It does, or else it doesn’t make any sense. If you only have the “right” to bear arms as part of a militia, then that’s not a right, that’s a duty. And last I checked, it’s not the Bill of Duties. The 2nd Amendment is a masterpiece of ambiguity, it can be interpreted reasonably and fairly as stating two entirely opposite imperatives. I entirely scorn any argument that insists otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4015 "2015-10-07T17:15:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Since that was the overwhelming majority view for about 200 years, that should not be surprising. > > It doesn’t make them “appear worse.” It demonstrates that they _are_ worse. Unless you think they should get credit for not shooting anyone in an empty desert. Really, though, it shows that the God-and-Jesus-lovin’, fag-hating, gun-toting South is worst of all. Manipulate the statistics as you wish (and what is “age-adjusted”?) but still probably safer in the desert or in the South, than in inner-city Chicago, Detroit, or any other such liberal utopia. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4016 "2015-10-07T17:20:37Z")
Grew up in Waco, Texas, a little bit of all of the above. My local paper always put certain news on the comics page, down below Alley Oop. That’s where you might read about the altercation at the Dew Drop Inn or another popular watering hole, where guns were drawn and fired, some injuries sustained, seldom fatal. I thought that was normal. Until I left. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4017 "2015-10-07T21:14:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Whether it was an “inherent right of free men” is unrelated to the issue of whether the Second Amendment conferred or protected that right. I’ll put it this way: for 100 years or more everyone seemed to think it did. Consider that at the Confederate surrender at Appomattox Court House at the end of the American Civil War, _defeated rebel officers_ were allowed to _ **keep their private sidearms** _. Rebels, allowed to remain armed (at least as individuals- the Army of Virginia’s ordnance was collected). For a right some claim has never been conferred or protected, it sure commanded respect back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4018 "2015-10-07T22:57:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It does, or else it doesn’t make any sense. If you only have the “right” to bear arms as part of a militia, then that’s not a right, that’s a duty. And last I checked, it’s not the Bill of Duties. Can I quote this next time “states rights” are brought up by conservatives? Cause it sounds like you are saying that the only rights that matter are individual rights. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4019 "2015-10-07T23:01:29Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Manipulate the statistics as you wish (and what is “age-adjusted”?) but still probably safer in the desert or in the South, than in inner-city Chicago, Detroit, or any other such liberal utopia. oh, yeah - whenever we liberals talk about utopia, we usually mean the inner city. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4020 "2015-10-07T23:10:45Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > [QUOTE=inscrutable] > Manipulate the statistics as you wish (and what is “age-adjusted”?) but still probably safer in the desert or in the South, than in inner-city Chicago, Detroit, or any other such liberal utopia. oh, yeah - whenever we liberals talk about utopia, we usually mean the inner city. [/QUOTE] I guess he prefers a conservative utopia, like small-government Somalia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=200) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=202)