# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 237
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4721 "2016-06-14T10:36:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What in the proposed bill would have stopped any mass shooting? I agree that some gun control can help at the margins, but that’s about it. The rhetoric I’m seeing from some liberals are things like, “It’s time to say ‘no more’”. Okay, then propose a bill that gets us to a big reduction in mass shootings. The bills you’ve actually proposed don’t do that. At best they’ll save a life here and there because some shooter had to take a few seconds to reload because his magazine was smaller. So it is pointless to do anything at all? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4722 "2016-06-14T10:38:39Z")
Among all the lame arguments from the excuse-making murder-rights faction, “If you can’t do everything, then there’s no point in doing anything” is probably the lamest. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4723 "2016-06-14T10:39:18Z")
I didn’t say that. I said that using the rhetoric of a moral crusade to pass a small, incremental bill, is just playing politics. All I said is that the gun control debate is nothing more than a politics debate, it is not designed to change things all that much. Just make them a little better on the margins. I’m not absolutist on guns. As long as law abiding people have access to a gun I’m cool. If you want to limit number of guns or magazine sizes or ban AR-15s, that’s cool with me. I just don’t expect it to accomplish much. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4724 "2016-06-14T10:40:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I didn’t say that. I said that using the rhetoric of a moral crusade to pass a small, incremental bill, is just playing politics. All I said is that the gun control debate is nothing more than a politics debate, it is not designed to change things all that much. Just make them a little better on the margins. I’m good with that. As long as the ball is moving forward, fewer people die. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4725 "2016-06-14T10:41:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I didn’t say that. Yes, you fucking did, you party hack. You also said > [@adaher](#): > > Gun ownership is a right. If you can deny it for being merely accused of a crime, then you can be denied any right based on mere accusations. The slippery-slope argument is the second lamest. Come up with a productive suggestion for how the murder rate can be reduced, okay? Got something other than sophistry and denigration of those who do care? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4726 "2016-06-14T10:44:17Z")
There’s no slippery slope here. The idea that a constitutional right can be taken away without trial by jury isn’t a slippery slope, it is actually the bottom of the slope! ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4727 "2016-06-14T11:00:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, then propose a bill that gets us to a big reduction in mass shootings. The bills you’ve actually proposed don’t do that. That’s funny, I don’t recall ever having an opportunity to put that claim to the test. It’s this sort of disingenuous claim that gives the famous quote “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy" it’s true meaning. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4728 "2016-06-14T11:04:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s no slippery slope here. The idea that a constitutional right can be taken away without trial by jury isn’t a slippery slope, it is actually the bottom of the slope! And yet all other constitutional rights do have limits. We must be living in a tyranny, then. You’re really not obligated to repeat \*every \*talking point the Republicans and their rulers offer, yanno. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4729 "2016-06-14T12:51:54Z")
Allowing a right to be taken away based on an accusation isn’t a “limitation” on a right. It’s the end of that right. Like I said though, why not apply that to voting? You no longer even need a felony, you just need to be accused of being mentally ill, or dangerous, or sympathetic to our nation’s enemies. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4730 "2016-06-14T13:33:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Allowing a right to be taken away based on an accusation isn’t a “limitation” on a right. It’s the end of that right. > > {…} you just need to be accused of being mentally ill, or dangerous, {…} I take it you’re unfamiliar with the long and too often ugly history of involuntary civil commitment in the US? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4731 "2016-06-14T19:23:50Z")
Given the observed competence with which the Terrorist Watch List has been administered, I’d say allowing the abrogation of a civil right based upon being on that list is indeed a stupid liberal idea. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4732 "2016-06-14T19:28:06Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Given the observed competence with which the Terrorist Watch List has been administered, I’d say allowing the abrogation of a civil right based upon being on that list is indeed a stupid liberal idea. Except that it isn’t a Liberal idea. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4733 "2016-06-14T19:49:06Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Except that it isn’t a Liberal idea. Tell that to my honorable Senators Boxer and Feinstein. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4734 "2016-06-14T19:58:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s no slippery slope here. The idea that a constitutional right can be taken away without trial by jury isn’t a slippery slope, it is actually the bottom of the slope! You’re an idiot, you know that? A jury can take away your freedom to assemble, your freedom to own a firearm, your freedom to travel, your freedom to publish, your freedom **period**. Or haven’t you noticed the incarceration rate in this country? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4735 "2016-06-14T20:28:32Z")
But we’re currently talking about a bit that would prevent people from acquiring guns based upon the presence of their name on the Terrorist Watch List, which has little to no judicial oversight. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4736 "2016-06-14T20:29:18Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > You’re an idiot, you know that? A jury can take away your freedom to assemble, your freedom to own a firearm, your freedom to travel, your freedom to publish, your freedom **period**. Or haven’t you noticed the incarceration rate in this country? But Ammon Bundy is shocked, _ **shocked!** _ that the government is violating his right to have his guns in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4737 "2016-06-14T20:35:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > But Ammon Bundy is shocked, _ **shocked!** _ that the government is violating his right to have his guns in jail. Quibble: Ryan Bundy. Given he was dropped on his head when he was little[sup]\*[/sup] I’ll give him a pass on that. [sup]\*[/sup]Or maybe he was run over. Is that any better? ---
**Author:** ![elliott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@elliott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elliott)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4738 "2016-06-14T21:32:03Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > You’re an idiot, you know that? A jury can take away your freedom to assemble, your freedom to own a firearm, your freedom to travel, your freedom to publish, your freedom **period**. Or haven’t you noticed the incarceration rate in this country? A jury isn’t the government. That’s the difference. The Bill of Rights is supposed to be non-negotiable rights given to all citizens. We can argue the hypocrisy of how prison and felony convictions play into it, but the solution isn’t to give up even more rights whenever the government feels its appropriate. The legal precedent is terrible. Publishing something that makes the government look bad? Looks like you’re a terrorist and we don’t need to guarantee your constitutional rights then, have fun in prison! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4739 "2016-06-14T21:39:16Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > A jury isn’t the government. That’s the difference. The Bill of Rights is supposed to be non-negotiable rights given to all citizens. **We can argue the hypocrisy of how prison and felony convictions play into it,** but the solution isn’t to give up even more rights whenever the government feels its appropriate. The legal precedent is terrible. Publishing something that makes the government look bad? Looks like you’re a terrorist and we don’t need to guarantee your constitutional rights then, have fun in prison! I’m going to go with NO on the section bolded. > **[Disfranchisement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement)** > > Disfranchisement, also disenfranchisement (which has become more common since 1982) or voter disqualification, is the restriction of suffrage (the right to vote) of a person or group of people, or a practice that has the effect of preventing someone from exercising the right to vote. Disfranchisement can also refer to the revocation of power or control of a particular individual, community, or being to the natural amenity they have; that is to deprive of a franchise, of a legal right, of some Wo... ---
**Author:** ![elliott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@elliott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elliott)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/4740 "2016-06-14T22:35:24Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’m going to go with NO on the section bolded. > > [Disfranchisement - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement) Actually you can quite easily argue whether or not felons deserve rights but ok [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=236) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=238)