# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 269
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5361 "2016-08-14T04:02:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nancy Pelosi, a font of stupid liberal quotes, says that Republicans can’t use any scandalous information that is in Democratic emails because that would make them accomplices to the hack: > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/dnc-hack-nancy-pelosi-226903](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/dnc-hack-nancy-pelosi-226903) > > That tells me there must be some pretty damaging stuff there. Keep hoping. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5362 "2016-08-14T04:16:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nancy Pelosi, a font of stupid liberal quotes, says that Republicans can’t use any scandalous information that is in Democratic emails because that would make them accomplices to the hack: > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/dnc-hack-nancy-pelosi-226903](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/dnc-hack-nancy-pelosi-226903) > > That tells me there must be some pretty damaging stuff there. You could say the same about Trump’s tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5363 "2016-08-14T04:18:36Z")
Very likely. And Pelosi has helpfully said that Trump’s tax returns can’t be used against him should they be illegally acquired. I’m sure she will keep her commitment. Actually, the article says “Democratic strategists” fear an October surprise, which indicates that they know the kind of stuff Democrats do when they think no one is watching. Pelosi wouldn’t issue such a preemptive statement if she didn’t have good reason. Invoking Watergate is a sign of desperation. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5364 "2016-08-14T04:24:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nancy Pelosi, a font of stupid liberal quotes, says that Republicans can’t use any scandalous information that is in Democratic emails because that would make them accomplices to the hack: > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/dnc-hack-nancy-pelosi-226903](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/dnc-hack-nancy-pelosi-226903) > > That tells me there must be some pretty damaging stuff there. IMHO it is possible, but as history tells me the ignorati (and there are virtually the same people now) in Climate gate had also obtained emails that hackers had stolen from climate change institutions and the right winger climate change deniers found very damaging quotes that Fox news and other right wing sources reported about for months… Only to be shown later that the quotes omitted context and many times the cuts made made the lines sound terrible for the scientists. In the end almost a dozen investigations by scientific groups and media that was responsible found that the scientists were innocent of any wrongdoing. Guess what news outlets refused to set the record straight to this day? I expect the same and worst from the pro ignorant and partisan hacks that will cut and paste (in fact I do remember seeing already some of that creative cutting to try to get some media outlets to report that Bernie was being sandbagged by the DNC). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5365 "2016-08-14T04:39:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, the article says “Democratic strategists” fear an October surprise, which indicates that they know the kind of stuff Democrats do when they think no one is watching. Or it means what John Glenn said: “There are only two successful ways to run a campaign: Unopposed, or scared.” > [@](#): > > Invoking Watergate is a sign of desperation. Claiming someone who is far ahead of you in the polls is desperate is a much truer sign of desperation. :rolleyes: Invoking Watergate is sometimes simply _accurate_. You just don’t learn very quickly, do you? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5366 "2016-08-15T04:56:20Z")
Tim Kaine in an otherwise intelligent op-ed says this: > [@](#): > > Progress has been slow because there have always been people willing to discriminate for profit. > **[Tim Kaine: How to make housing fair in America | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/12/opinions/affordable-housing-election-clinton-kaine/)** > > Hillary Clinton’s plan will invest tens of billions to ensure families of color find decent, affordable places to live. I thought the argument was that discrimination was wrong because minorities were no more riskier to lend to or rent to than whites? If discriminators are making profits from discriminating then it’s going to take some pretty draconian enforcement to get anywhere because you’re basically forcing people to lose money and take risks that you yourself would never take. As hard as it is to legislate morality, it’s pretty much impossible to force people to risk their money for a higher social purpose. I’d also note that what Kaine is talking about isn’t even really discrimination by race. It’s discrimination by risk, which is legal, even if there is a disproportionate impact on minorities. Unless Kaine is proposing in a mealy-mouthed way to alter anti-discrimination laws to force people to be treated equally regardless of credit risk or criminal history? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5367 "2016-08-15T05:28:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d also note that what Kaine is talking about isn’t even really discrimination by race. It’s discrimination by risk, which is legal, even if there is a disproportionate impact on minorities. Unless Kaine is proposing in a mealy-mouthed way to alter anti-discrimination laws to force people to be treated equally regardless of credit risk or criminal history? But credit risk or criminal history are very well documented at an individual level. I have a ‘credit score’ that is specific to me, and based on my past history of paying my bills. A business using my score to determine what credit limit or interest rate to give me is not discrimination. But using a gross level of generalization on groups of people is discrimination. A business saying “we don’t give car loans to Hispanics, because they’ll default” is discrimination (even if it’s true that Hispanics default at a higher rate than other races). The business should look up the credit risk (easy to do with current computerization) of that particular Hispanic customer, and decide based on that, Looking at the race, or gender, or age of a potential customer, and _pre judging_ their creditworthiness from that, is clear _prejudice._ ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5368 "2016-08-15T05:28:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > . . . I’d also note that what Kaine is talking about isn’t even really discrimination by race. It’s discrimination by risk, which is legal, even if there is a disproportionate impact on minorities. Unless Kaine is proposing in a mealy-mouthed way to alter anti-discrimination laws to force people to be treated equally regardless of credit risk or criminal history? In the past, banks practiced loan redlining by neighborhood, but essentially on the basis of race. Neighborhoods with a large black population were cut off from housing and business loans. That’s harder to do nowadays, because of regulations, and thank God for that. You point to discrimination on the basis of individual credit risk or criminal history, but what corporations used to do – and very much want to return to – is race-based discrimination, generalizing bad credit and criminality as group characteristics, not personal characteristics. I hope you don’t really want to be siding with that kind of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5369 "2016-08-15T05:40:45Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > But credit risk or criminal history are very well documented at an individual level. I have a ‘credit score’ that is specific to me, and based on my past history of paying my bills. A business using my score to determine what credit limit or interest rate to give me is not discrimination. > > But using a gross level of generalization on groups of people is discrimination. A business saying “we don’t give car loans to Hispanics, because they’ll default” is discrimination (even if it’s true that Hispanics default at a higher rate than other races). The business should look up the credit risk (easy to do with current computerization) of that particular Hispanic customer, and decide based on that, > > Looking at the race, or gender, or age of a potential customer, and _pre judging_ their creditworthiness from that, is clear _prejudice._ I agree, but that’s not “discrimination for profit”. That’s discrimination that costs you profit because you are turning down good customers. In the example Kaine opened his op-ed with, an apartment stayed vacant longer than it otherwise would have because his client was turned away because of her race. That’s the opposite of profit. That’s a loss. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5370 "2016-08-15T05:43:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > In the past, banks practiced loan redlining by neighborhood, but essentially on the basis of race. Neighborhoods with a large black population were cut off from housing and business loans. > > That’s harder to do nowadays, because of regulations, and thank God for that. > > You point to discrimination on the basis of individual credit risk or criminal history, but what corporations used to do – and very much want to return to – is race-based discrimination, generalizing bad credit and criminality as group characteristics, not personal characteristics. > > I hope you don’t really want to be siding with that kind of behavior. Was that a profitable behavior though? Are banks losing money now because they are forced to treat people as individuals? I just want to know if his line was a nonsense throwaway or portends a change in policy. The Obama administration has been reinterpreting a lot of anti-discrimination law to apply to “disparate impact”, so it’s a fair question. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5371 "2016-08-15T05:58:51Z")
New stupid liberal idea, or maybe “progressive”: Black Lives Matter [endorsing the anti-American anti-Israel anti-Semitic terror-loving idea of BDS](http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.735206) to support the Palestinian terrorist Islam jihad. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5372 "2016-08-15T07:40:36Z")
It looks like whatever part of BLM has gotten organized has become Marxist. They’ve also been complaining about US imperialism. Hopefully the next black protest movement remains nonpartisan. The problem with hitching your train to liberalism is that you then have to endorse every cause and then your movement loses its focus. BLM was better when they were giving a hearty FU to both parties. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5373 "2016-08-15T08:17:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Very likely. And Pelosi has helpfully said that Trump’s tax returns can’t be used against him should they be illegally acquired. I’m sure she will keep her commitment. Campaigning politicans lie and exaggerate — welcome to reality. What irks me is the implicit assumption by Republiopathic oafs like **adaher** that Democrats should be held to a higher standard. Is it that they understand that the left is, on balance, much more moral than the right? To hold Republiopaths to any standards of truth would be like asking scorpions not to sting, but impugning Democrats is fair game. :smack: When apples are compared to apples, the GOP hurries to change the subject away from truth, hypocrisy, or indeed any personal-morality topic. Remind me again: which of the two major parites now has their one-time highest elected official (and a “family-values” blowhard at that) in prison for charges relating to molesting young boys? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5374 "2016-08-15T08:19:55Z")
Poor argument. This is the stupid liberal idea thread. It’s generally considered stupid to counter with “Democrats do it too!” in the stupid Republican thread, so the same rule applies here. Using information against your opponents, regardless of how it was obtained, has always been fair game and complaining about it preemptively is pretty stupid and makes you wonder. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5375 "2016-08-15T08:23:56Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > But credit risk or criminal history are very well documented at an individual level. I have a ‘credit score’ that is specific to me, and based on my past history of paying my bills. A business using my score to determine what credit limit or interest rate to give me is not discrimination. > > But using a gross level of generalization on groups of people is discrimination… > > Looking at the race, or gender, or age of a potential customer, and _pre judging_ their creditworthiness from that, is clear _prejudice._ Banks (or their software suppliers) have developed “expert systems” to evaluate loan applications; these are pattern-recognition or neural-network algorithms that were trained with a variety of input including loan officers’ guesses. None of the bank officers, let alone regulators, will know exactly what approval criteria are trained into these automatic systems. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5376 "2016-08-15T09:08:06Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > New stupid liberal idea, or maybe “progressive”: Black Lives Matter [endorsing the anti-American anti-Israel anti-Semitic terror-loving idea of BDS](http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.735206) to support the Palestinian terrorist Islam jihad. Your article describes one organization out of over 50. I don’t support BDS, but it’s not in support of “Palestinian terrorist Islam Jihad”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5377 "2016-08-15T09:49:49Z")
That’s true only in the “useful idiot” sense. They don’t support it, but their actions aid and encourage it because they are under the impression that the Palestinian government has any other purpose than to wage war on Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5378 "2016-08-15T10:23:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Poor argument. This is the stupid liberal idea thread. It’s generally considered stupid to counter with “Democrats do it too!” in the stupid Republican thread, so the same rule applies here. It’s relevant if the argument is that it’s a stupid _liberal_ idea. If Democrats and Republicans are doing the same thing to the same degree it’s inaccurate to attribute the practice to one side only (and worse if the side you’re attributing it to is doing it _less_). Conversely, if there’s a significant difference in degree in the other direction such an application may be appropriate. > [@](#): > > Using information against your opponents, regardless of how it was obtained, has always been fair game and complaining about it preemptively is pretty stupid and makes you wonder. Preemptively declaring that it’s perfectly okay to use illegally-obtained information (not that we would ever encourage anyone to hack into the opposition’s records, nudge nudge, and it’s not our fault if those people decided to send us all this useful information, wink wink) is \*\*also \*\*pretty stupid and makes you wonder. In fact, it ought to make you wonder a lot more. Personally I’d love to see Trump’s tax returns, but I don’t want someone hacking the IRS or his files to get them. That way lies danger. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5379 "2016-08-15T11:22:59Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s relevant if the argument is that it’s a stupid _liberal_ idea. If Democrats and Republicans are doing the same thing to the same degree it’s inaccurate to attribute the practice to one side only (and worse if the side you’re attributing it to is doing it _less_). Conversely, if there’s a significant difference in degree in the other direction such an application may be appropriate. Are there examples of Republicans getting busted through illegal info and them crying foul about it being used? > [@](#): > > Preemptively declaring that it’s perfectly okay to use illegally-obtained information (not that we would ever encourage anyone to hack into the opposition’s records, nudge nudge, and it’s not our fault if those people decided to send us all this useful information, wink wink) is \*\*also \*\*pretty stupid and makes you wonder. In fact, it ought to make you wonder a lot more. It’s not okay to hack that stuff, but if it becomes public that Democrats engage in some nefarious stuff when they don’t think anyone can see, that’s something the public should know and take into account. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5380 "2016-08-15T14:52:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s true only in the “useful idiot” sense. They don’t support it, but their actions aid and encourage it because they are under the impression that the Palestinian government has any other purpose than to wage war on Israel. That and the whole Palestinian movement is more about destroying Israel than a Palestinian state, so as long as they blow themselves up and want a “right of return” to a country other than theirs. Why do the Palestinians claim to want a state if Palestinians can also “return” to Israel? Also, most BDS supporters of people and groups seem to think “intifadas” aka terrorist jihad, is OK or even encourageable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=268) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=270)