# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/521 "2012-01-04T03:45:10Z")
Forget it, I might as well unsubscribe from the thread. Once curlcoat gets her nails into a thread its a goner. She like the kudzu of this messageboard, the only alternative is to nuke and pave the thread. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/522 "2012-01-04T06:45:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Obviously they have something to offer, or people wouldn’t hire them. OK, they have nothing to offer that cannot be done by legal residents. And, many of them don’t get hired. We are currently renovating our house, and I see the same faces at the Lowes parking lot 4-5 times a week, hoping for work. Some of them are getting pretty thin. Another thing that doesn’t make sense to me about folks that see no problem with us having this big illegal population - many of them are seriously abused by their employers when they can get work. All of this hand wringing about the anchor babies, but no one seems to care that their fathers are working 12 hours a day with zero benefits, getting injured/killed on the job, getting the dime dropped on them to the INS. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/523 "2012-01-04T14:27:12Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > but no one seems to care that their fathers are working 12 hours a day with zero benefits, getting injured/killed on the job, getting the dime dropped on them to the INS. Sad. Except when we care by saying “those folks should get a blanket amnesty and access to our government services” you yell at us then, too. In other words, stop concern trolling–it makes you look even dumber than everything else that comes out of your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/524 "2012-01-04T14:56:44Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > OK, they have nothing to offer that cannot be done by legal residents. And, many of them don’t get hired. Most of them don’t want to _be_ hired. There are several instances over the past few years, in states where immigration laws have gotten tougher, of jobs going un-filled because many US citizens feel it is “beneath” them, or that the wages aren’t high enough, even though they would be minimum wage, or higher. [One such article](http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/12/alabama-cant-find-anyone-fill-illegal-immigrants-old-jobs/45829/) (Alabama seems to be the worst off, but I’ve heard of similar things in Arizona, New Mexico, etc…, trying to find cites for them right now) > [@](#): > > Hall said the agriculture positions pay well above minimum wage, but many Americans find them too “physically taxing” to perform. Kind of puts that whole “lazy immigrant” stereotype to rest, doesn’t it? If there is work out there that isn’t being done, it needs to get done, and there is a group of people willing to do it, and another that is not…why not simply hire the willing? The farmers have _tried_ to get Americans to do the jobs, but even the ones who are already poor, uneducated, and used to physical labor won’t do it…you can only offer so much incentive (i.e. higher wages) before you turn somewhere else. I imagine most of us would scoff at having to pay two to three times as much for tomatoes so that the “good Americans” working the fields got what they considered to be “enough money.” [The fact is, most jobs illegals work aren’t being “taken” from an American.](http://www.cis.org/illegalImmigration-employment) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/525 "2012-01-04T15:03:51Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Another thing that doesn’t make sense to me about folks that see no problem with us having this big illegal population - many of them are seriously abused by their employers when they can get work. All of this hand wringing about the anchor babies, but no one seems to care that their fathers are working 12 hours a day with zero benefits, getting injured/killed on the job, getting the dime dropped on them to the INS. Sad. Illegal immigrants are entitled to workers’ compensation medical benefits, and to lost wage benefits if they didn’t deceive their employers regarding their legal status. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/526 "2012-01-04T15:09:57Z")
Maybe an ongoing thread about illegal immigration, for those of you who care, in order not to derail this one too badly? Or back to the specific proposal, which I still haven’t seen specific reasons against (only seeing generalized rants about illegals and ‘anchor babies’). ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/527 "2012-01-04T16:56:12Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > So, what have the illegals earned? Why is it that you think it’s OK for them to walk over the border with absolutely nothing to offer but we should pay for their food, health care, any car accidents they get in? > [@curlcoat](#): > > Some of them are getting pretty thin. Well, make up your mind. Are we feeding them or not? ---
**Author:** ![smaje1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@smaje1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smaje1)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/528 "2012-01-04T17:59:09Z")
Wow. I so rarely participate in political threads, but my bile is up since Santorum came this close to winning Iowa last night. Flipping SANTORUM. So here’s my threadjack of the day: A number of Republicans on this thread seem to be bitching about supplying health care, social services, etc., to the people who live in the US. And that’s cool. Go on, bitch about that. I can totally see your point of view – it’s your hard-earned tax dollars going to people you don’t believe deserve the help (or that much help). But since I can see your point of view, can you please see my point of view that if, by your argument, government should be smaller and less intrusive, then why the hell do they care if gays marry each other? Marriage, love, and sex are among the most personal aspects of my life. Why do so many Conservatives want to use their political power to deny two human beings the right to be married? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/529 "2012-01-04T18:34:40Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Why is it that you think it’s OK for them to walk over the border with absolutely nothing to offer but we should pay for their food, health care, any car accidents they get in? They do jobs we can’t get legals to do at a higher salary. Which provides us very cheap vegetables and fruits. So we’re swapping health care for healthy food. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/530 "2012-01-04T19:17:18Z")
> [@smaje1](#): > > Why do so many Conservatives want to use their political power to deny two human beings the right to be married? To paraphrase H.L. Mencken: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might be doing something oogy. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/531 "2012-01-04T21:20:38Z")
> [@smaje1](#): > > But since I can see your point of view, can you please see my point of view that if, by your argument, government should be smaller and less intrusive, then why the hell do they care if gays marry each other? Marriage, love, and sex are among the most personal aspects of my life. Why do so many Conservatives want to use their political power to deny two human beings the right to be married? A book written by bronze-age goat herders says they are abominations. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/532 "2012-01-04T21:48:36Z")
Also, generally what conservatives are trying to conserve is whatever amount of privilege they hold in the world. The less privilege that is, the more they don’t want to share it, which is why the people who scream loudest over gay marriage or illegal immigrants or what have you tend to be the ones who are aware that there are dangerously few rungs below them on society’s ladder, so they need the people on them to stay put. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/533 "2012-01-04T21:49:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I don’t remember now what you wanted to be right about, but at this point in time I am not technically earning money myself as I am on permanent disability. Which I pay taxes on. Also, not being cagy at all - you’ve made a bunch of incorrect assumptions based on god knows what, and I told you that you were wrong. Typing is difficult for me right now, so I wasn’t interested in playing a guessing game with you. Okay, well, it’s a bit ungrateful of you to try to set rules about what those of us who are earning money are allowed to spend it on, really. I have no trouble with illegal immigrants, especially since they are contributors to our economy. Which, to put it bluntly, you are not. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/534 "2012-01-04T23:57:33Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Okay, well, it’s a bit ungrateful of you to try to set rules about what those of us who are earning money are allowed to spend it on, really. I have no trouble with illegal immigrants, especially since they are contributors to our economy. Which, to put it bluntly, you are not. But she _pays taxes_ on the money she sucks from the government teat! That clearly makes her superior to people who, because of their status, pay taxes on the money they earn with a much smaller prospect of getting anything from it. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/535 "2012-01-05T03:15:52Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Except when we care by saying “those folks should get a blanket amnesty and access to our government services” you yell at us then, too. Well duh. The whole issue in this state is we are paying out way more in government services than we can afford. Even if you give all of the illegals currently here amnesty and they started paying taxes, they still aren’t going to be making all that much of a difference for the most part. _And_ you are simply encouraging more illegals to come. The state of California simply cannot house every poor person in Mexico, nevermind the other Central American countries. There is a really good reason why the US has limits on (legal) immigration. > [@bouv](#): > > Most of them don’t want to _be_ hired. There are several instances over the past few years, in states where immigration laws have gotten tougher, of jobs going un-filled because many US citizens feel it is “beneath” them, or that the wages aren’t high enough, even though they would be minimum wage, or higher. > [One such article](http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/12/alabama-cant-find-anyone-fill-illegal-immigrants-old-jobs/45829/) (Alabama seems to be the worst off, but I’ve heard of similar things in Arizona, New Mexico, etc…, trying to find cites for them right now) > > Kind of puts that whole “lazy immigrant” stereotype to rest, doesn’t it? > > If there is work out there that isn’t being done, it needs to get done, and there is a group of people willing to do it, and another that is not…why not simply hire the willing? The farmers have _tried_ to get Americans to do the jobs, but even the ones who are already poor, uneducated, and used to physical labor won’t do it…you can only offer so much incentive (i.e. higher wages) before you turn somewhere else. I imagine most of us would scoff at having to pay two to three times as much for tomatoes so that the “good Americans” working the fields got what they considered to be “enough money.” > > [The fact is, most jobs illegals work aren’t being “taken” from an American.](http://www.cis.org/illegalImmigration-employment) The answer is not to look the other way on illegals, the answer is get tough on those people who won’t do a job because it’s “beneath them” yet they don’t have a problem being on unemployment for years. We have all these unemployed legals out there, and they are refusing work because it’s “beneath them” and the government is letting them get away with that? As for crop pickers, they don’t have to be illegal in order to be willing to do that job. OTOH, if as soon as someone becomes legal they don’t want to work the fields, that begins to sound like a problem with the job, not with the workers. I don’t know what the conditions are now, but back when I did it the work was pretty brutal, there were no benefits (we were doing good if there was a porta-potty nearby) and the pay was really low. So, if you are only concerned about how much your tomatoes cost and not what happens to those who pick them, it sounds like your priorities are in the wrong place. I don’t believe I have ever heard the “lazy immigrant” stereotype. It certainly doesn’t apply to the ones I have known here. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Illegal immigrants are entitled to workers’ compensation medical benefits, and to lost wage benefits if they didn’t deceive their employers regarding their legal status. When did it become legal for anyone to employ an illegal? > [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Well, make up your mind. Are we feeding them or not? We aren’t feeding all of them - they tend to have more pride than the average resident. Plus, if these are single men, they probably can’t get anything since you have to have kids to qualify for most government handouts. > [@AlienVessels](#): > > They do jobs we can’t get legals to do at a higher salary. Which provides us very cheap vegetables and fruits. > > So we’re swapping health care for healthy food. 🙂 You are swapping health care, food, housing, schooling and expenses from accidents for cheap food. And the number of workers needed to pick crops is not even a drop in the bucket of the number that are here - extremely few of the illegals that live in southern California pick crops. The fact that you all keep bringing up crop pickers just shows how little you all know about the issue. There are hundreds of thousands of illegals in this state - only a very small percentage of them pick crops. > [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Okay, well, it’s a bit ungrateful of you to try to set rules about what those of us who are earning money are allowed to spend it on, really. I have no trouble with illegal immigrants, especially since they are contributors to our economy. Which, to put it bluntly, you are not. Because I am not earning a paycheck, I am not contributing to our economy? As for trying to “set rules”, my husband earns a paycheck and pays high taxes on it, and he anti-illegals too. Unless you are living here, you are not affected by my opinions on what state tax money should be spent on. You want to support illegals, I don’t care but you are also demanding that those of us who don’t want to follow your beliefs. I don’t know what ungrateful has to do with it, but what you are doing is not exactly - uh - nice. And, as for the illegals contributing to the economy, a negative contribution is not a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/536 "2012-01-05T03:57:23Z")
Do you plan on collecting social security? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/537 "2012-01-05T04:00:35Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Do you plan on collecting social security? I am collecting social security. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/538 "2012-01-05T04:01:19Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Because I am not earning a paycheck, I am not contributing to our economy? She has a good point, **mister nyx**. **curlcoat** contributes to the economy in a number of important ways: 1. By receiving benefits funded by taxes paid by other people. 2. By paying tax on the benefits she receives that are funded by taxes paid by other people. 3. By buying goods and services using the benefits she receives that are funded by taxes paid by other people. 4. By paying tax on goods and services using the benefits she receives that are funded by taxes paid by other people. Think of our economy as a great, big machine, in which each of us plays a small part! Most of us are \*producers \*and _consumers_, and because many of us _produce_ a little more than we _consume_, it means we can take care of needy folks like **curlcoat** who are only able (or willing) to _consume_! Now, that sure sounds better than being ground into dog food, doesn’t it **curlcoat**? “RUFF RUFF!” Heh, don’t you worry, Fido… there’s still plenty of free food left over for _YOU_, too! _\_ So, now do you see how each of us—from the President down to the undocumented lettuce picker, and even the old lady on disability who does nothing but watch TV all day—has a role to play in this great big American economy of ours? > [@curlcoat](#): > > a negative contribution is not a good thing. \*\ \* Whoops… looks like you might be getting some fresh-ground dog food after all, Fido! _\_ “RUFF RUFF!” _\_ \*\ \* ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/539 "2012-01-05T04:35:18Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I am collecting social security. Illegal immigrants pay taxes for social security and medicare for people like YOU with as much as 7 billion dollars per year, but they can never collect. [cite](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html) ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/540 "2012-01-05T05:48:07Z")
“Well duh. The whole issue in this state is we are paying out way more in government services than we can afford.” So when will you become part of the solution? I hear Arizona’s nice this time of year, and legislate laws about illegal immigration much more to your liking! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=28)