# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/561 "2012-01-06T19:27:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re saying he doesn’t know enough calculus, while displaying ignorance in arithmetic. Since I assume you are responding to my post, I’d think you would get that I know what I said. And what I said was he is commenting on a subject he knows very little about. Reading random internet sites and watching the “news” is not the same thing as living in a situation. > [@Enderw24](#): > > We have more poor people now because our economy is in the fucking craphouse. Our economy has not been in the fucking craphouse for the last couple-three decades. > [@](#): > > Though I can guarantee you that, had these programs not been in place, we as a country would have been even worse off than we are now. Hard to say - would the people hardest hit when the economy collapsed have been better able to deal with it if they hadn’t been paying so much in taxes? I don’t have the interest/time/tendons for this subject that you appear to have. Perhaps you could find a state that has very little in the way of government paid social services and compare how it is doing to California. Might be interesting. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I really have no idea what you’re talking about here. Do you not know the definition of the word “entitled”? There may be workers comp benefits being paid in the names of illegal workers, but because they are illegal they don’t have the right to claim them > [@](#): > > We don’t have more poor people today than a couple of decades ago. The percentage of Americans living below the poverty line in 2010 was 15.1 - a ten year high, for obvious reasons, but not significantly higher than 30 years ago. [See for yourself.](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104525.html) If I had meant to say people living below the poverty line, I’d have typed that. There are plenty of poor people who live above that line. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/562 "2012-01-06T19:34:23Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Since I assume you are responding to my post, I’d think you would get that I know what I said. I think I get what you _want_ to say, but so far your choices of expression are poor ones. And for that matter, what you _want_ to say may not actually be true, i.e. that illegal immigrants represent a net economic loss for the United States. Heck, at this point you may as well set up a fairly liberal guest-worker program and stop hassling people who just want to work for a living. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/563 "2012-01-06T19:41:00Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Our economy has not been in the fucking craphouse for the last couple-three decades. This is true. But since I’ve not claimed that these social programs would eliminate poverty, nor have you shown any sort of evidence of a continual three decade-long increase in poverty which is correlated to (if not caused by) these social programs, I fail to see your point. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/564 "2012-01-06T19:42:02Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You are an idiot. It is generally a good idea to not comment on things you know little to nothing about if you don’t wish people to know you are an idiot. Go forth and learn about SSDI, illegal aliens in California and the economy if you wish to not make this mistake again. > > Well, not on these subjects at least. Born and raised in California. Liven in LA for 30 years, now in Silicon Valley. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/565 "2012-01-06T19:42:33Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Do you not know the definition of the word “entitled”? There may be workers comp benefits being paid in the names of illegal workers, but because they are illegal they don’t have the right to claim them. Okay, I get it. You have no idea what we’re talking about. “Workers’ compensation benefits” are not insurance premiums. They’re the amounts paid out by the insurance companies, or state insurance funds in some cases… the medical and disability expenses paid for and to injured workers. Illegal aliens do have the right to claim them. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you. They just aren’t allowed to claim lost wage benefits if they deceived their employers to obtain work. Understand? ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/566 "2012-01-06T20:11:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Understand? I’ll take ‘Questions I already know the answer to’ for $800, Alex. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/567 "2012-01-06T20:43:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I think I get what you _want_ to say, but so far your choices of expression are poor ones. Entirely possible since as I said up thread someplace, typing is not easy for me right now. > [@](#): > > And for that matter, what you _want_ to say may not actually be true, i.e. that illegal immigrants represent a net economic loss for the United States. Heck, at this point you may as well set up a fairly liberal guest-worker program and stop hassling people who just want to work for a living. You think it is a good idea to import workers with so many residents out of work? > [@Enderw24](#): > > This is true. But since I’ve not claimed that these social programs would eliminate poverty, What you claimed and what I responded to was “It works and we as a society are better because of it.” > [@](#): > > nor have you shown any sort of evidence of a continual three decade-long increase in poverty which is correlated to (if not caused by) these social programs, I fail to see your point. I’m not the one that made the claim that government handouts are good for society - ball’s in your court. > [@kenetic](#): > > Born and raised in California. Liven in LA for 30 years, now in Silicon Valley. Ah. Then I suppose there is no hope for you. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, I get it. You have no idea what we’re talking about. Yes, I do. I know exactly what workers comp is. What you are not getting is that simply because an illegal and their employer has paid into the fund doesn’t give them the _right_ to claim on it. They may be able to claim due to continued deceit but as long as they are illegal, they do not have the rights that legal citizens do. Unless worker’s comp has been specifically designated as payable to illegals? Then, if the government has done that to us too, they would have the legal right to claim it. And I suppose in a nanny state like this one, that is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/568 "2012-01-06T21:04:13Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I’m not the one that made the claim that government handouts are good for society - ball’s in your court. You’re absolutely right. Given that you’re on a government handout and you’re clearly not a net benefit to society, I am now prepared to concede my point. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/569 "2012-01-06T21:06:45Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > You’re absolutely right. Given that you’re on a government handout and you’re clearly not a net benefit to society, I am now prepared to concede my point. However you wish to wiggle out of it is no concern to me. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/570 "2012-01-06T21:16:10Z")
If curlcoat doesn’t think handouts like social security are good for society yet she is on one, I guess the question then is, why does curlcoat hate America? Don’t bother answering, as I don’t really care. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/571 "2012-01-07T00:37:58Z")
I honestly think Curlcoat simply can’t learn. Her brain, such as it is, was set in stone the day she turned 21. New facts aren’t something she will deal with, because she’s so profoundly mentally lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/572 "2012-01-07T02:01:25Z")
Lobohan, you have a very generous heart. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/573 "2012-01-07T02:12:10Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Lobohan, you have a very generous heart. It just seems that way because curlcoat is such a huge curmudgeon. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/574 "2012-01-07T02:54:32Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Unless worker’s comp has been specifically designated as payable to illegals? Then, if the government has done that to us too, they would have the legal right to claim it. And I suppose in a nanny state like this one, that is possible. [THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FUCKING TELL YOU FOR TWO PAGES.](http://unicogroup.com/unicomp/files/2011/04/WorkersCompensationAndIllegalImmigrantsStateByStateListing.pdf) It’s got nothing to do with the “nanny state”. It’s common sense. I know the cognitive dissonance required to bitch constantly about welfare while collecting it leaves little time for you to actually _think_, but consider this: if an employer knowingly hires an illegal immigrant, why the hell should the state have to bear the cost if he/she gets hurt on the job? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/575 "2012-01-07T03:19:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FUCKING TELL YOU FOR TWO PAGES.](http://unicogroup.com/unicomp/files/2011/04/WorkersCompensationAndIllegalImmigrantsStateByStateListing.pdf) > > It’s got nothing to do with the “nanny state”. It’s common sense. I know the cognitive dissonance required to bitch constantly about welfare while collecting it leaves little time for you to actually _think_, but consider this: if an employer knowingly hires an illegal immigrant, why the hell should the state have to bear the cost if he/she gets hurt on the job? Why the hell would an employer have to bear the cost if an illegal gets hurt on the job? That is one of the issues with being an illegal - they get hurt, their employer reports them to ICE, problem solved. As an aside, none of this screaming from you means that your original statement was true - illegals are not entitled to anything in this country. Bleeding hearts may have given them some legal rights, but that doesn’t translate into them being entitled to the things they steal from us. As for thinking, why don’t you try some logic? Do you agree that a vast majority of illegals are working low paying jobs, with few or no benefits? Do you agree that a vast majority of illegals want the same things that most citizens want (spouse, family, home, etc)? And they aren’t any better at waiting to get those things until they can afford them than citizens are, so they marry and have babies on MediCal and EBT. So, here you have California, with plenty of people already on some sort of government handout (not unemployment or anything else they specifically paid into) that may have paid taxes at some point, or maybe their parents did. Then you add all of these folks that walk across the border from another country, who have never paid taxes themselves, nor did their parents, and who begin to use government services almost right away. Meanwhile, our middle class shrinks so there are fewer people here to pay the taxes needed to support all of the social services we have. Then people in this thread think it’s a good idea to just wave illegals without driver’s licenses on because otherwise it would cause paperwork? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/576 "2012-01-07T03:23:50Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > …illegals are not entitled to anything in this country. Bleeding hearts may have given them some legal rights, but that doesn’t translate into them being entitled to the things they steal from us. So the law is meaningless? By what virtue are entitlements conferrred on the deserving, if not the law? ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/577 "2012-01-07T03:44:27Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Why the hell would an employer have to bear the cost if an illegal gets hurt on the job? That is one of the issues with being an illegal - they get hurt, their employer reports them to ICE, problem solved. Holy fuck. So they’re just subhuman? Disposable people? This has got to be one of the most hateful things I’ve ever read. So in your world, it would be fine if I went down to Home Depot and rounded up a bunch of illegal immigrants to pick poisonous flowers on my tiger-infested landmine farm, and every time one of them got hurt, just call the ICE to haul their bleeding ass back to Mexico? Assuming they don’t die on the way, because lord knows we wouldn’t want to spend a dime saving their life, as that money belongs to proper Americans who are valuable contributors due to paying back some small percentage of their disability payments in taxes? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/578 "2012-01-07T04:35:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So the law is meaningless? By what virtue are entitlements conferrred on the deserving, if not the law? The word “entitle” means that a person has done something to earn it - for example, he is entitled to drive because he passed the test and paid the fee. If the state has passed a law that says that known illegals can collect workers comp if injured, that’s pathetic but it still isn’t something they are entitled to since they haven’t done anything to earn it _and_ qualified illegally. It’s like saying that a burglar who trips over a chair in my home while stealing my TV is entitled to claim on my homeowners. > [@kenetic](#): > > Holy fuck. So they’re just subhuman? Disposable people? This has got to be one of the most hateful things I’ve ever read. Well, that’s why I tell you that you should actually know something before you post. This isn’t uncommon, especially in construction but I have also heard of it with jobs like motel maid and private home cleaners. My brother-in-law is a contractor, and he not only sends injured workers back to Mexcio, when he goes back down to get more workers many times those same guys will come back to work for him after they are able to work again. They do have medical facilities in Tijuana you know. > [@](#): > > So in your world, it would be fine if I went down to Home Depot and rounded up a bunch of illegal immigrants to pick poisonous flowers on my tiger-infested landmine farm, and every time one of them got hurt, just call the ICE to haul their bleeding ass back to Mexico? Assuming they don’t die on the way, because lord knows we wouldn’t want to spend a dime saving their life, as that money belongs to proper Americans who are valuable contributors due to paying back some small percentage of their disability payments in taxes? You know, if you used your brain for maybe a second, you wouldn’t say stupid shit like this. For one thing, it obviously isn’t “my world” because - hello? on disability? I’m not hiring anyone, I am merely telling you what happens here. As for picking poisonous flowers on your tiger-infested landmine farm, I highly doubt you would be allowed to have that sort of business. As for sending “bleeding asses” back to Mexico, at least in my brother-in-law’s case they did get treatment and as far as I know none were ever seriously injured. OTOH, I wouldn’t be surprised if some employers did ship them back in pieces. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/579 "2012-01-07T04:39:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > As for picking poisonous flowers on your tiger-infested landmine farm, I highly doubt you would be allowed to have that sort of business. So you’re opposed to the free market? What gives the nanny state government the right to shut down my tiger-infested poisonous flower/landmine farm? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/580 "2012-01-07T04:42:43Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > So you’re opposed to the free market? What gives the nanny state government the right to shut down my tiger-infested poisonous flower/landmine farm? This nanny state seems to think none of us can possibly take care of ourselves, which has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in free market. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=30)