# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 291
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5801 "2017-01-29T23:06:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As I noted before, it’s not just about people joining terrorist groups. It’s also about whether the great mass of peaceful Muslims decides that they’re afraid of both America and the extremists, rather than preferring (and aiding in ways big and small) America and the west in general. That’s a nuanced argument. This policy degrades our relationship with Muslims. That’s what Murphy should have said. But I think there’s a lot of assumptions built into his statement. The first one being, “Americans won’t give a shit if I argue that this policy degrades our image in the Muslim world.” So he had to pull out the “we’re less safe” card, which is worse. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5802 "2017-01-29T23:09:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a nuanced argument. This policy degrades our relationship with Muslims. That’s what Murphy should have said. But I think there’s a lot of assumptions built into his statement. The first one being, “Americans won’t give a shit if I argue that this policy degrades our image in the Muslim world.” So he had to pull out the “we’re less safe” card, which is worse. Then his biggest crime is in trying to present a nuanced argument more simply and palatably. That’s an incredibly mundane sort of criticism. The idea behind the argument is sound, even when presented in a simplified manner. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5803 "2017-01-30T09:34:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Political radicalization is a result of insulting behavior or mistreatment. Extreme violence is a result of a culture that glorifies such violence. What - like [America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States)? [Or Canada?](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-mosque-shooting-latest-leaves-six-dead-quebec-city-a7552451.html) [Or the UK?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jo_Cox) By the way, I’m enjoying the “non-liberals are incapable of understanding nuanced arguments” approach. Please continue, Governor. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5804 "2017-01-30T14:01:33Z")
The argument isn’t nuanced at all. It basically comes right out and says, “Muslims will act violently when insulted or mistreated.” What you actually say is just as important as your intent. You don’t get to have people interpret your statements solely as you wish them to be interpreted. When you say that insulting Muslims gets Americans killed, there’s no nuance there, no confusion. It’s a direct commentary on Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5805 "2017-01-30T14:17:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The argument isn’t nuanced at all. It basically comes right out and says, “Muslims will act violently when insulted or mistreated.” It doesn’t say anything about Muslims being insulted, and it doesn’t say “Muslims will act violently when mistreated” (although it’s probably true to the extent that any group will). But I’m not surprised at your inability to understand a nuanced argument. > [@](#): > > What you actually say is just as important as your intent. You don’t get to have people interpret your statements solely as you wish them to be interpreted. Right. So it’s other people’s fault you can’t read or listen for comprehension. Got it. > [@](#): > > When you say that insulting Muslims gets Americans killed, there’s no nuance there, no confusion. It’s a direct commentary on Muslims. But he didn’t say “insulting Muslims gets Americans killed”. He said this \*\*policy \*\*will get Americans killed by providing significant propaganda value for extremist groups. The issue with the policy isn’t that it “insults” Muslims, and if you’re struggling with that very basic concept I’m not sure I can help you here. You don’t even seem to be able to follow the things Murphy did explicitly say. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5806 "2017-01-30T15:00:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It doesn’t say anything about Muslims being insulted, and it doesn’t say “Muslims will act violently when mistreated” (although it’s probably true to the extent that any group will). But I’m not surprised at your inability to understand a nuanced argument. It’s not fair to call it an ‘inability’; he puts a lot of effort into it. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5807 "2017-01-30T16:30:24Z")
Muslim terrorist recruits are dumb kids who experience peer pressure just like dumb kids the world over. Why is it so silly to think that every time we act like the image of the Great Satan that the terrorists are fighting against, a few more of those on the fence fall into their sway? And if Trump supporters are all pissy because liberals think they’re morons, they should stop being fucking morons and accept that reality is a little more complicated than Toby Keith’s lyrics would have them believe. If that makes me an elitist, then hand me my NPR tote bag. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5808 "2017-01-31T00:47:24Z")
Some disgusting liberal [keeps vandalizing this page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invertebrate). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5809 "2017-01-31T00:51:03Z")
Ok, that is funny as all hell. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5810 "2017-01-31T01:07:46Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Some disgusting liberal [keeps vandalizing this page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invertebrate). I’m no expert, but he looks more reptilian to me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5811 "2017-01-31T01:21:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When you say that insulting Muslims gets Americans killed, there’s no nuance there, no confusion. It’s a direct commentary on Muslims. It’s an even more direct commentary on Americans. At least the ones like you. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5812 "2017-01-31T21:35:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Political radicalization is a result of insulting behavior or mistreatment. Extreme violence is a result of a culture that glorifies such violence. So radicalization doesn’t lead to violence on its own - it needs a dose of special sauce? Do I have that right? I’d agree, but that special sauce is dosed out everywhere, isn’t it? We see extreme violence here in the US that has little or no connection to radical politics. (My pet theory is that the impulse towards acts of extreme violence is something that brews within a small percentage of young men - whether by nurture or nature, I’m not sure. I suspect it may lean towards nature, just because of the things my testosterone occasionally leads me to contemplate in high-stress situations, but I really don’t know.) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5813 "2017-01-31T23:15:36Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But I’m not surprised at your inability to understand a nuanced argument. you liberals always try to argue “nuanced” points that aren’t any more nuanced than anyone elses; just left-wing and thus pseudo-intellectual. This idea that we should tip toe around anything that might make Muslims, almost a plurality of the world and a majority in 60 nations, feel bad, is called “appeasement.” Also, why do more Muslims globally get angry about teddy bears named Muhammed, but Hindus don’t go around the globe blowing Americans and other Westerners up over Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, the phrase “sacred cow,” culturally appropriating the Kama Sutra, forgetting that THEY, not Arabs, invented our numeral system, etc? What does it say about the Islams? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5814 "2017-01-31T23:19:32Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > you liberals always try to argue “nuanced” points that aren’t any more nuanced than anyone elses; just left-wing and thus pseudo-intellectual. > > This idea that we should tip toe around anything that might make Muslims, almost a plurality of the world and a majority in 60 nations, feel bad, is called “appeasement.” > > Also, why do more Muslims globally get angry about teddy bears named Muhammed, but Hindus don’t go around the globe blowing Americans and other Westerners up over Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, the phrase “sacred cow,” culturally appropriating the Kama Sutra, forgetting that THEY, not Arabs, invented our numeral system, etc? What does it say about the Islams? What gibberish… goddamn you’re an idiot. And a coward. And a bigot. And a liar. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5815 "2017-01-31T23:33:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It doesn’t say anything about Muslims being insulted, and it doesn’t say “Muslims will act violently when mistreated” (although it’s probably true to the extent that any group will). But I’m not surprised at your inability to understand a nuanced argument. > > Right. So it’s other people’s fault you can’t read or listen for comprehension. Got it. > > But he didn’t say “insulting Muslims gets Americans killed”. He said this \*\*policy \*\*will get Americans killed by providing significant propaganda value for extremist groups. The issue with the policy isn’t that it “insults” Muslims, and if you’re struggling with that very basic concept I’m not sure I can help you here. You don’t even seem to be able to follow the things Murphy did explicitly say. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What gibberish… goddamn you’re an idiot. And a coward. And a bigot. And a liar. …but why do Muslims around the world require kid glove treatment that no one else gets? Any answers besides your standard"you’s a rayciss" stuff? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5816 "2017-01-31T23:44:15Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > …but why do Muslims around the world require kid glove treatment that no one else gets? > > Any answers besides your standard"you’s a rayciss" stuff? Not kid glove treatment, just be treated like any other human being. Even if someone is not inclined to join ISIS, seeing poor treatment may make them feel like not co-operating or giving assistance to our armed forces. As an example, one of those detained was an interpreter for our military for 10 years. He’s given a visa to immigrate but when he lands, he’s detained and told he’s going back as he’s lo longer welcome. Great way to treat people, make a promise and then break it in a rather spectacularly assholish way. Think if it happened to you. Would you be inclined to offer more help after something like that? Would your friends\*, after hearing story, be likely to offer help? \*theoretical ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5817 "2017-01-31T23:57:48Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > …but why do Muslims around the world require kid glove treatment that no one else gets? > > Any answers besides your standard"you’s a rayciss" stuff? “Fuck off” is a perennial favorite, but you don’t seem to be getting the message. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5818 "2017-02-01T00:17:38Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > …but why do Muslims around the world require kid glove treatment that no one else gets? They don’t. > [@](#): > > Any answers besides your standard"you’s a rayciss" stuff? If you say something that’s not idiotic (or bigoted, or cowardly, or dishonest…), you won’t get criticized so much, jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5819 "2017-02-02T09:37:49Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > you liberals always try to argue “nuanced” points that aren’t any more nuanced than anyone elses; just left-wing and thus pseudo-intellectual. Translation: “ **I** don’t understand nuanced arguments, therefore they must not be nuanced because otherwise that would mean I’m an idiot.” Which, frankly, QED by every post you make. > [@](#): > > This idea that we should tip toe around anything that might make Muslims, almost a plurality of the world and a majority in 60 nations, feel bad, is called “appeasement.” Fortunately that’s not an idea anyone is actually proposing. There’s a difference between “tiptoeing around Muslims” and “not being bigoted assholes”. I recommend you learn it. > [@](#): > > Also, why do more Muslims globally get angry about teddy bears named Muhammed, but Hindus don’t go around the globe blowing Americans and other Westerners up over Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, the phrase “sacred cow,” culturally appropriating the Kama Sutra, forgetting that THEY, not Arabs, invented our numeral system, etc? What does it say about the Islams? “The Islams”? It says you’re delusional. It says confirmation bias is a bitch. It says you’ve forgotten or are deliberately ignoring the vast amount of non-Muslim violence that goes on and has gone on in the world. You think Hindus aren’t violent? Or Buddhists? Both groups have engaged in serious ongoing pograms (ironically against Muslims). You think Christians aren’t violent? Boy, have _you_ not been paying attention. Americans are just as easy to rile. The difference is that those that don’t just go and shoot the person who annoys them prefer to outsource the violence by insisting that the US military do the killing for them. Poor nations use suicide bombs. Rich nations use drone strikes. You seem pretty angry. But I’m sure you’ve never suggested that Muslims should be killed… ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/5820 "2017-02-02T10:18:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And yet no one argues that making white people made increases recruitment. Well, I kind of did here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19967849&highlight=Daesh#post19967849](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19967849&highlight=Daesh#post19967849) though my point was mostly ignored. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=290) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=292)