# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 314
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6261 "2017-09-21T00:07:13Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Well, let’s start with getting Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. That is a massively good thing. And he’s appointing people to the lower courts. He might even get another SCOTUS appointment. We can only hope. > > **Booming economy - when he was elected, Dow-Jones was at 18000 and change. Today it’s up over 22000. I sincerely doubt we would be seeing numbers like that if Hillary had won.** > > Illegal immigration is down significantly. > > Pulled us out of the Paris Accords. > > That’ll do for a start. There’s still a load of stuff to be done. He needs to take a harder line on several things, such as getting rid of Obamacare, finish building the wall, etc. But so far, so good. When Obama took office, the Dow was at 7949. So you’re saying the economy was still for shit in 2016? To finish building a wall, you have to _start_ building a wall. And is Mexico still going to pay for it? The US can’t pull out until 2019. We’re still in it. You still haven’t explained why having health insurance is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6262 "2017-09-21T01:09:56Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Most of your “positives” seem awfully negative to me. That’s no surprise, though. You’re like a walking, talking Opposite Day for pretty much all right-thinking people… Nope. I’m dead on target. Perhaps you would care to point out how ANY of those are negatives? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6263 "2017-09-21T01:11:56Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You still haven’t explained why having health insurance is a bad thing. Who said it was? It’s Obamacare that is the bad thing. It has screwed things up so badly that there is no such thing as affordable insurance any more. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6264 "2017-09-21T01:19:07Z")
…so this thread is, pretty much, **Clothahump** versus the reasonable and informed people now…? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6265 "2017-09-21T01:21:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Who said it was? It’s Obamacare that is the bad thing. It has screwed things up so badly that there is no such thing as affordable insurance any more. I personally know several decent and hard working people who were greatly helped by the ACA. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6266 "2017-09-21T01:22:36Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Nope. I’m dead on target. Is “target” the new “arrival” ? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6267 "2017-09-21T01:32:42Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Who said it was? It’s Obamacare that is the bad thing. It has screwed things up so badly that there is no such thing as affordable insurance any more. When has insurance ever been affordable? 13 years ago, a group plan through my employer was $475 a month. The only reason I could afford it was the employer paid $350 of it. The “affordable” plans you’re thinking of actually covered little. Maybe doctors visits and little else. Part of the reason for the higher premiums under the ACA was that plans actually have to cover a specified minimum level of medical care and stopped many of the abuses from the insurance companies. [Insurance pre-ACA.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/11/health-insurance-before-obamacare/index.htm) > [@](#): > > ``` > The Georgia real estate agent whose group health plan was folding and who couldn’t find replacement insurance unless it excluded coverage of her $1,700-a-month rheumatoid arthritis medication, without which she would quickly become disabled. > The Arizona small business owner who could only find insurance if it excluded coverage of anti-rejection drugs he was taking for a successful liver transplant he’d had years before. > The Virginia early retiree who discovered he was uninsurable at any price because of his diabetes, despite the fact that he kept it under perfect control. > The Indiana lawyer whose longtime insurance company, following standard industry practice, deliberately shrunk his plan’s risk pool to drive his premium up to more than $4,200—a month!—and him out of the plan. > > ``` [The ‘good old days’ before Obamacare](https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2014/10/25/the-good-old-days-before-obamacare/) > [@](#): > > 82% wanted the system overhauled > > In August 2008, about six months before debate began in Washington on what would become the Affordable Care Act, 82 percent of Americans were so dissatisfied with the U.S. health care system they wanted it overhauled, according to The Commonwealth Fund, which commissioned the poll. > > We were worried not only about how we personally were being affected by the inefficiency and high cost of our uniquely American health care system, we were worried about how our country as a whole was being affected. > > And for good reason. > 50 million were uninsured > > The cost of health care – and health insurance – was rising so fast that ever-growing numbers of us were winding up in the ranks of the uninsured. Fifty million – one out of every six of us – were uninsured when the Affordable Care Act was signed into law in 2010. That number was projected to grow by several million more over the coming decade if Congress didn’t pass reform legislation. > > The main reason so many of us were uninsured in 2010 was that health insurance had simply become a budget-buster for many American families. The cost of employer-sponsored family coverage reached $13,375 in 2009, an increase of 131 percent in ten years, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6268 "2017-09-21T01:41:30Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > …so this thread is, pretty much, **Clothahump** versus the reasonable and informed people now…? now? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6269 "2017-09-21T01:59:15Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Nope. I’m dead on target. Perhaps you would care to point out how ANY of those are negatives? Ok, shall we try this one? > [@Clothahump](#): > > Illegal immigration is down significantly. Sounds like something to crow about. But have you paused to consider why that might be? I can guess at your narrative, which may have a smidgen of validity to it, but the greater reality of the situation is not likely to bolster your case (e.g., why is there not a tide of people sneaking over the border into Somalia). ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6270 "2017-09-21T04:56:12Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > …so this thread is, pretty much, **Clothahump** versus the reasonable and informed people now…? Nope. It’s me vs. the braindead liberals. There’s nothing reasonable about the posts you people are making, and there sure as hell isn’t anything “informed” about them. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6271 "2017-09-21T05:08:11Z")
Pot, meet kettle Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6272 "2017-09-21T05:30:38Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > you people /facepalm ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6273 "2017-09-21T05:38:20Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Nope. It’s me vs. the braindead liberals. There’s nothing reasonable about the posts you people are making, and there sure as hell isn’t anything “informed” about them. Once again, our friend demonstrates the Republican virtue of Projecting Like a Motherfucking Multiplex. His Golden Messiah has taught him well. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6274 "2017-09-21T09:20:22Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Nope. It’s me vs. the braindead liberals. There’s nothing reasonable about the posts you people are making, and there sure as hell isn’t anything “informed” about them. It wasn’t until I served in the Navy that I learned that most people who disagreed with my politics were still pretty decent and intelligent people. It’s a shame you never learned the same lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6275 "2017-09-21T10:39:58Z")
Thank you for making an effort. Let’s look at the list: > [@Clothahump](#): > > Well, let’s start with getting Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. That is a massively good thing. And he’s appointing people to the lower courts. He might even get another SCOTUS appointment. We can only hope. That’s actually a win for Mitch McConnell who managed to prevent Obama from filling the vacancy for the better part of a year. Trump had little to do besides sign his name to it. > [@](#): > > Booming economy - when he was elected, Dow-Jones was at 18000 and change. Today it’s up over 22000. I sincerely doubt we would be seeing numbers like that if Hillary had won. By that metric you ought to be thrilled at what Obama achieved then, given the state of the Dow when he took office vs. when he left it. As for the numbers under Hillary, well, we can only speculate but given that one of the big criticisms levelled at her was that she was too Wall Street-friendly I’m not sure why you think having her as POTUS would suppress an already-booming Dow. Trump’s deregulation approach certainly makes businesses happy, but his constant changes of policy and provocative tweets serve to increase market volatility which makes businesses nervous. Clinton would have been a more stable hand at the tiller, even if her policies weren’t quite as well-received, and there’s no reason to assume growth wouldn’t have continued in the same vein as previously. > [@](#): > > Illegal immigration is down significantly. Is it? I’d appreciate a cite on that. If your assessment is simply based on the drop in apprehensions at the border, however, it needs to be considered against the removal of a significant percentage of border agents in order to deal with illegal immigrants already in-country. If I, as Hypothetical Mayor, order all the police of my town to focus on issuing parking tickets the number of arrests for violent crimes would fall dramatically, but it wouldn’t tell me anything about the actual crime rate. And again, given that under the Obama administration the number of illegal immigrants deported or prevented from entering the country dramatically increased over those of the previous administration, surely you would want to credit him for the increasing level of diligence in dealing with illegal immigration. > [@](#): > > Pulled us out of the Paris Accords. As noted, we’re not out yet and won’t be out fully until November 2020, at which point we will be into a new presidential term. And in the past week the Trump administration has been sending mixed signals about whether or not the pull-out will actually happen. > [@](#): > > That’ll do for a start. There’s still a load of stuff to be done. He needs to take a harder line on several things, such as getting rid of Obamacare, finish building the wall, etc. But so far, so good. As already noted, the wall has not been started. Planning for the wall has not started. Funding for the wall has not been agreed (and there is no way in which Mexico can be compelled or persuaded to fund it). Major logistical issues such as how to build the wall along the Rio Grande have been handwaved away. In short, all Donald Trump has done is talk about a wall without any indication of how it will be achieved. I’m not sure how “taking a harder line” will make that happen. As for Obamacare - you claim it has made insurance unaffordable and yet millions more have insurance (and have better quality insurance that covers pre-existing conditions and is not subject to recission). The current bill will effectively make insurance unaffordable for 32 million people. How is that a positive? I recognize that Donald Trump has only been president for eight months and thus a comparison to the list of achievements over Obama’s eight years needs to be tempered accordingly. That said, I’ve provided a long and impressive list of verifiable negatives Trump has managed to rack up in those eight months; I strongly suspect a comparison of Obama’s first eight months would not produce a similar list. > [@Clothahump](#): > > Nope. It’s me vs. the braindead liberals. There’s nothing reasonable about the posts you people are making, and there sure as hell isn’t anything “informed” about them. It’s strange that you claim we aren’t “informed” and yet we are able to back up our claims with substantive information. You can’t, won’t, or at the very least haven’t. Even the vast majority of the examples of “stupid liberal ideas” you have provided have fallen over with the slightest of scrutiny. Mind you, it’s possible that you’re unable to rebut our points and are merely resorting to ad hominem attacks to distract from this, but given how vociferously you’ve opposed that approach in the past I’m sure that can’t be the case here… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6276 "2017-09-21T11:02:13Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The “affordable” plans you’re thinking of actually covered little. Maybe doctors visits and little else. Part of the reason for the higher premiums under the ACA was that plans actually have to cover a specified minimum level of medical care and stopped many of the abuses from the insurance companies. > [Insurance pre-ACA.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/11/health-insurance-before-obamacare/index.htm) Yeah, a lot of the “cheap” pre-ACA plans were simply fraudulent. They’d take your money and then when you needed them you’d learn that nothing you thought was covered was actually covered. For a lot of people on fraudulent plans their costs went up post-ACA, and they blame ACA for that. But what ACA actually did was stop these companies from defrauding people. I vaguely remember that Clothahump was on one of these fraudulent plans. So yeah, his costs went up, but he also got actual insurance rather then being ripped-off. I guess being ripped-off was cheaper, until you actually needed insurance, at which point it would become tremendously expensive. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6277 "2017-09-21T11:53:02Z")
[Reminds me of this guy.](https://twitter.com/BillyArmagh/status/910571065264324608) \*Sassy Gay Republican, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6278 "2017-09-21T12:40:15Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Once again, our friend demonstrates the Republican virtue of Projecting Like a Motherfucking Multiplex. > > His Golden Messiah has taught him well. yep, I peek into this thread now & then because it’s like a fun house mirror. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6279 "2017-09-21T13:49:40Z")
_Stupid liberal effort to reason with_ \*\*Clothahump \*\* _of the day_ - Bonus: Stupid _why the sodding fuck haven’t they disabled the stupid fucking board option that prevents you from typing something in all caps like oh, say, an acronym, even in the fucking title of a fucking post because why would anyone need to ever do that without some kind of malicious intent and GOD KNOWS this whole shithouse would collapse if we were exposed to the HORROR of seeing an all-caps post because apparently we’re all pathetic crybaby snowflakes hey you know what maybe **Clothahum** has a point after all_ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/6280 "2017-09-21T14:55:36Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > _Stupid liberal effort to reason with_ \*\*Clothahump \*\* _of the day_ Now, now. The man has repeatedly said that the reason he doesn’t engage with us “people” is because we don’t offer anything substantive and instead only resort to insults. So I’m presenting substantive, well-reasoned arguments. If he can respond in kind, it’s all good. And if he can’t, well… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=313) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=315)