# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/621 "2012-01-10T04:10:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [No, they don’t](http://www.dir.ca.gov/dwc/faqs.html#2). California payroll taxes go to (1) the State Disability Insurance fund, which pays benefits to people unable to work because of injuries unrelated to work, (2) the Employment Training Tax, and (3) the state unemployment insurance fund. Huh. OK. When I asked what all of that alphabet soup meant, they told me that part of it was workers comp. Or maybe it’s fairly recent? I asked when I first moved here, almost 20 years ago. I’ve never heard of the Employment Training Tax, but I’ve never worked in an industry that would need that. > [@](#): > > It wouldn’t even make sense for California workers to “pay in” to workers’ compensation via payroll tax deduction, because California does not have a central workers’ compensation fund except for state workers. Coverage is provided by employers via self-insurance funds and private insurance vendors. Seems that the employers could find a way to get employee payments into the same fund they are paying into themselves. > [@](#): > > Employee contributions to workers’ compensation benefits are a violation of procedural due process rights, because workers’ compensation is a _quid pro quo_ between employers and workers in which workers waive their right to sue employers for negligence in exchange for guaranteed _employer paid_ benefits for work injuries regardless of fault. That doesn’t sound like a good deal for the employees, unless there is something else around to make sure employers aren’t negligent. > [@](#): > > Let it go. You’re wrong. Excuse me? I said we pay for it here, based on what I was told when I first started working here, and you provided proof we don’t. What are you talking about, let it go? > [@Clothahump](#): > > California seems to be the testing ground for dumbass ideas. Brown is proposing raising spending and taxes and effectively stomping on any kind of economic recovery. > [http://news.investors.com/Article/597010/201201061835/california-brown-budget-tax-hikes.htm](http://news.investors.com/Article/597010/201201061835/california-brown-budget-tax-hikes.htm) And that’s where I came in, one negative remark about Brown. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/622 "2012-01-10T13:19:36Z")
Plonk. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/623 "2012-01-10T14:07:13Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Seems that the employers could find a way to get employee payments into the same fund they are paying into themselves. Self-insurance funds aren’t managed by the state. They’re just big bank accounts that employers designate as workers’ compensation funds. > [@](#): > > That doesn’t sound like a good deal for the employees, unless there is something else around to make sure employers aren’t negligent. _shrug_ It’s how workers’ compensation works. The vast majority of work related injuries have nothing to do with employer negligence, so the system benefits most at the expense of a few. Employees can still sue their employees for gross negligence or willful misconduct, just not for run-of-the-mill “you left this banana skin out and I slipped on it” negligence. > [@](#): > > Excuse me? I said we pay for it here, based on what I was told when I first started working here, and you provided proof we don’t. What are you talking about, let it go? Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/624 "2012-01-11T06:35:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Self-insurance funds aren’t managed by the state. They’re just big bank accounts that employers designate as workers’ compensation funds. I didn’t say they were, I said that I’d think that it wouldn’t be hard for an employers to find a way to get employee payments into the same fund they are paying into themselves. If it’s a bank account they are managing themselves, even easier! > [@](#): > > _shrug_ It’s how workers’ compensation works. The vast majority of work related injuries have nothing to do with employer negligence, so the system benefits most at the expense of a few. How does that work then? I don’t know anyone who has collected worker’s comp \* - if the fund is there to pay for on the job injuries so that workers won’t sue their employer for medical costs, why is it paying for injuries not caused by employer negligence? Or is it the assumption that if one is hurt on the job, the employer must have done/not done something that caused it? (\* Technically I do know a friend who fell from the third story of a building they were putting up, and he did get workers comp at first, but the maker of the harness was at fault and they ended up paying it all back.) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/625 "2012-01-11T12:32:10Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I don’t know anyone who has collected worker’s comp \* - if the fund is there to pay for on the job injuries so that workers won’t sue their employer for medical costs… Who told you that??? ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/626 "2012-01-11T12:49:34Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > if the fund is there to pay for on the job injuries so that workers won’t sue their employer for medical costs… > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Who told you that??? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …workers’ compensation is a _quid pro quo_ between employers and workers in which workers waive their right to sue employers for negligence in exchange for guaranteed _employer paid_ benefits for work injuries regardless of fault. .. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/627 "2012-01-11T13:17:02Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > [http://news.investors.com/Article/597010/201201061835/california-brown-budget-tax-hikes.htm](http://news.investors.com/Article/597010/201201061835/california-brown-budget-tax-hikes.htm) A link to an article which [ul][li] contributed to advanced economic thought by regurgitating the meme “Taxxes is bad – its a no-braner” :p[/li][li] substitutes “Moonbeam” for “Brown.” Are they 8-year olds?[/li][li] has a link to a summary of its editorials:[/li][/ul] > [@](#): > > Secular Progressives Mock QB Tim Tebow—And Us > … > The White House is now taking hits for trying to downplay a lavish Halloween party the Obamas threw themselves amid an economic crisis. > … > Unions Get Waivers Bought With Political Cash > … > U.S. Government Goes Gazelle Hunting > … > After another demanding Monday, including a casual lunch with Joe and celebrating the NBA champs, who are not his hometown Bulls, Obama did, not one, but two Democrat fundraisers in the nation’s capital. All in all, Clothy’s link would be a better candidate for “Stupid Republican Ideas.” The self-reinforcing nature of Internet opinion is still an important topic. Clothy, do you spend much time reading moderate or progressive opinions? (I’m the pot calling the kettle black here, as links like Clothy’s just make me want to vomit rather than understand how others think.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/628 "2012-01-11T14:40:55Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > How does that work then? I don’t know anyone who has collected worker’s comp \* - if the fund is there to pay for on the job injuries so that workers won’t sue their employer for medical costs, why is it paying for injuries not caused by employer negligence? Or is it the assumption that if one is hurt on the job, the employer must have done/not done something that caused it? In part, it’s part of the same basic mindset that brought us workplace safety regulations, the 40 hour workweek, and so on: employers are powerful, workers are not, and it was virtually impossible for employees to prove employer negligence anyway. The other side of it is that litigation is not a very efficient way of delivering medical care. In the case of workplace injuries, this has special significance, because employers in the 19th and early 20th century were much better at defending negligence claims by employees than employees were at prosecuting them. The reason workers’ compensation pays for injuries not caused by employer negligence is simple, though: it’s a tradeoff. Because workers can’t sue their employers in tort (and hence potentially rake in millions) the 14th Amendment and various state constitutional provisions require that they get something in return. Because it’s a no-fault system, workers’ compensation is also the last payor if there are multiple liable entities. If you get hit by a car on the job, you get WC benefits, but the WC insurer/employer can recover whatever it pays out from any parties which are actually at fault (as in your friend’s case) or from the employee if the employee settles with those parties. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/629 "2012-01-11T16:51:26Z")
Liberals needs the type of oversight that tells them not to drink bleach, wet roads are slippery, any kind of competitive sports are unfair, and anything else that keeps them in the gene pool. Without anti-stupidity laws and restrictions on normal human activities they’d be extinct. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/630 "2012-01-11T16:56:21Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Liberals needs the type of oversight that tells them not to drink bleach, wet roads are slippery, any kind of competitive sports are unfair, and anything else that keeps them in the gene pool. Without anti-stupidity laws and restrictions on normal human activities they’d be extinct. So, when you moving to Somalia? It’s your dream country, right? I really think that one of the main drivers of conservative stupidity is that they are ignorant about what the 19th and previous centuries were like. Living in the Ron Paul world was hell. Because of the world liberals created you are likely to die old and in bed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/631 "2012-01-11T17:25:33Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Liberals needs the type of oversight that tells them not to drink bleach, wet roads are slippery, any kind of competitive sports are unfair, and anything else that keeps them in the gene pool. Without anti-stupidity laws and restrictions on normal human activities they’d be extinct. Since we didn’t have those laws for most of human history, liberals must already _be_ extinct and any liberal you see is therefore a figment of your own imagination. [QUOTE=Lobohan] Because of the world liberals created you are likely to die old and in bed. [/QUOTE] … and your spouse won’t be prosecuted if you die in bed in something other than the missionary position. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/632 "2012-01-12T00:44:21Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Liberals needs the type of oversight that tells them not to drink bleach, wet roads are slippery, any kind of competitive sports are unfair, and anything else that keeps them in the gene pool. Without anti-stupidity laws and restrictions on normal human activities they’d be extinct. Another stupid conservative idea. This is the wrong thread for this. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/633 "2012-01-12T01:21:32Z")
> [@zut](#): > > .. Thanks! I wasn’t looking forward to having to find that! > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In part, it’s part of the same basic mindset that brought us workplace safety regulations, the 40 hour workweek, and so on: employers are powerful, workers are not, and it was virtually impossible for employees to prove employer negligence anyway. > > The other side of it is that litigation is not a very efficient way of delivering medical care. In the case of workplace injuries, this has special significance, because employers in the 19th and early 20th century were much better at defending negligence claims by employees than employees were at prosecuting them. Is it something we still need now? Does it reduce any chance of frivolous lawsuits? > [@](#): > > Because it’s a no-fault system, workers’ compensation is also the last payor if there are multiple liable entities. If you get hit by a car on the job, you get WC benefits, but the WC insurer/employer can recover whatever it pays out from any parties which are actually at fault (as in your friend’s case) or from the employee if the employee settles with those parties. Oh, huh. Sounds like it does have some good use still then. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/634 "2012-01-12T04:23:24Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Is it something we still need now? Does it reduce any chance of frivolous lawsuits? It reduces the cost of doing business and places the burden of providing medical and disability benefits on entities- employers- that can much better afford it. We don’t need it, per se, but I think on balance it’s much better than the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/635 "2012-01-13T05:22:19Z")
Curlcoat, again, literally every one of the questions here that apparently mystifies you so would be trivially easy to answer if you had the experience regular people do of earning your keep. Obviously you don’t want to earn a living but if you did, you would understand why those of us who actually earn money and produce things for society don’t have the same opinions as you and the rest of the Glenn Beck fan club. Of course those of us with jobs would rather see public money going to support illegal immigrants – who largely are working – rather than people like you who are either incapable or unwilling to work. That’s natural. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/636 "2012-01-13T07:00:28Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Curlcoat, again, literally every one of the questions here that apparently mystifies you so would be trivially easy to answer if you had the experience regular people do of earning your keep. Obviously you don’t want to earn a living but if you did, you would understand why those of us who actually earn money and produce things for society don’t have the same opinions as you and the rest of the Glenn Beck fan club. Of course those of us with jobs would rather see public money going to support illegal immigrants – who largely are working – rather than people like you who are either incapable or unwilling to work. That’s natural. :rolleyes: :smack: If you had a brain at all, you would have seen that I answered every one of your questions, until you started repeating yourself and I started referring you back to old posts. So… None of your questions mystified me. I “had the experience” of “earning my keep” the only way you think is valid (earning a paycheck) for almost 4 decades. I continue to “earn my keep” as a housewife and a volunteer. Therefore… I am still “earning a living” and still “produc(ing) things for society”. I’d like to be able to have a job that has a paycheck, but cannot. As it was, I delayed going on disability as long as I could. Unlike you, my opinions are not reliant on whether or not I am getting a paycheck. Unlike you, I and most of my friends are living with the illegal issue and therefore know a hell of a lot more than you do, or ever will, and we all have the same opinion on whether or not the illegals are a positive influence on the California economy. Some of those friends are retired, some have never worked and some are still working. Obviously, you cannot speak for all of those who are or were working. Still haven’t figured out why it is so important to you that I answer your posts, but I’m leaving for Phoenix for three days and may not have time for this, so I hope you don’t die of loneliness while I’m gone! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/637 "2012-04-04T02:19:57Z")
I never figured I’d have the occasion of contributing to _this_ thread, but consider [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14932057&postcount=5018). Tarring with a rather broad brush, there, Elvis? Sure you don’t want to throw in the yokels in Flyover Country and the Rockies/Basin-and-Range/Cascades too? Regards, A Usual Suspect ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/638 "2012-04-04T02:29:00Z")
Do you know the penalty for reviving a curlcoated thread? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/639 "2012-04-04T02:34:07Z")
You’re going to include a SDMB poster in this thread? Isn’t that kind of, you know, weak? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/640 "2012-04-04T04:17:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Do you know the penalty for reviving a curlcoated thread? Piss off asshole. I’d have had no reason to post if you weren’t such a rude stupid sonovabitch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=33)