# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 357
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7121 "2018-09-11T20:42:46Z")
Someone needed to keep this thread up to the standard that Clothy set . . . thanks adaher, keep up the ‘good’ work! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7122 "2018-09-12T00:27:56Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Someone needed to keep this thread up to the standard that Clothy set . . . thanks adaher, keep up the ‘good’ work! > > CMC fnord! Impossible. Nothing can top Clothy’s story of the jogging liberal and his electric lawnmower and his “proof” of said story. ---
**Author:** ![HamptonsLax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@HamptonsLax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HamptonsLax)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7123 "2018-09-12T00:34:03Z")
room temperature can [be sexist](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/28/cynthia-nixons-team-cites-sexism-over-room-temperature-ahead-cuomo-debate-report.html) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7124 "2018-09-12T04:15:40Z")
> [@HamptonsLax](#): > > room temperature can [be sexist](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/28/cynthia-nixons-team-cites-sexism-over-room-temperature-ahead-cuomo-debate-report.html) Pro tip: if the article you’re citing cites a _real_ news outlet as its main source, it’s better just to link to that. > **[Cuomo vs. Nixon Debate? It’s Already Heated (Literally) (Published 2018)](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/nyregion/cuomo-nixon-debate-demands-ny.html)** > > Cynthia Nixon’s team has asked that the debate hall at Hofstra be warmed to 76 degrees, arguing that workplace temperatures are “notoriously sexist.” > [@](#): > > Ms. Nixon’s team has publicly accused the debate host, WCBS-TV, of catering to all of the governor’s demands to land the debate, and they are concerned that the debate hall at Hofstra University on Long Island might feel like an ice rink when they arrive. (Mr. Cuomo is famous for preferring to make his public appearances in deeply chilled conditions.) > > So in a pre-emptive strike, Rebecca Katz, a top strategist for Ms. Nixon, asked WCBS-TV in an email last week that the debate hall be warmed to 76 degrees. > > Ms. Katz wrote that working conditions are “notoriously sexist when it comes to room temperature, so we just want to make sure we’re all on the same page here,” according to a copy of her email obtained by The New York Times. It sounds a little less stupid when you consider the context - [this is not a new issue](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45345518). > [@](#): > > As the New York Times pointed out, however, there is some scientific basis for saying temperatures are rigged to keep men comfortable. > > A 2015 study published in the journal Nature Climate Change found that most office buildings still set their temperatures based on men’s metabolic rates. It concluded that the average comfortable level for men is about 72F, but women prefer a balmier 77. Men and women have different physiology. Women have a slightly higher body temperature, and are socially encouraged to wear clothing that does less to insulate them (compare a dress with a suit), and as a result, women tend to prefer higher temperatures at work. But typically, workplace thermostats do not reflect this. So yeah, this isn’t pulled out of thin air - a temperature that may be comfortable for Governor Cuomo is liable to be incredibly uncomfortable for Mrs. Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7125 "2018-09-12T18:40:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Another problem with the bill: By naming it the BEZOS Act, he’s screaming “Bill of Attainder”. I wonder if it was named that in order to try to trick Trump into supporting it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7126 "2018-09-12T22:12:48Z")
Vox published a good piece on the bill: > **[The controversy over Bernie Sanders’s proposed Stop BEZOS Act, explained](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/11/17831970/stop-bezos-bernie-sanders)** > > You need to take him seriously, not literally. > [@](#): > > or all the discussion Sanders’s self-description as a “socialist” has created, he’s genuinely neither a socialist nor a social democrat in the European sense. He’s a very American kind of populist whose specific policy proposals are best understood as props in a larger moralistic narrative rather than well-designed cures for specific ills. (It’s best to take him seriously, not literally, to coin a phrase.) > [@](#): > > But if implemented, it wouldn’t work because of how benefits payments are structured. Instead, it would create a lot of perverse incentives, due to the way benefits eligibility works. > > The implicit presumption of Sanders’s proposal is that paying a low-wage worker an extra dollar would result in a dollar less of benefits usage and thus a dollar less of tax burden. Therefore, it would make sense for companies to respond to the bill by paying up. > > But in the real world, the programs in question are structured to mostly ensure that $1 in extra earnings does not reduce your benefits by a full dollar. After all, if benefits were fully crowded out, then the programs would massively disincentive working. > > This is a sort of a boring technical point, but it’s important: While raising the minimum wage would force employers to pay their low-wage workers more, under the Stop BEZOS Act it would still be cheaper to pay the tax than to hand out raises. > > But it gets worse. The proposal conceptualizes low wages as the sole driver of benefits eligibility, but that’s not the case. Benefits eligibility is determined at the level of household income versus household size, which is related to but quite different from hourly wages. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7127 "2018-09-15T01:54:16Z")
Chelsea Clinton invokes Christianity to support Roe: > **[Chelsea Clinton: 'As a Deeply Religious Person,' Banning Abortions 'Is...](https://www.christianpost.com/news/chelsea-clinton-as-a-deeply-religious-person-banning-abortions-is-unchristian-to-me-227384/)** > > Chelsea Clinton has said that as a religious religious person, the idea of America going back to a pre-Roe v Wade society where abortions were banned is unChristian Cythnia Nixon blames high turnout for her loss: [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cynthia-nixon-campaign-blames-high-turnout-for-loss/ar-BBNjGnY?li=BBnb7Kz](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cynthia-nixon-campaign-blames-high-turnout-for-loss/ar-BBNjGnY?li=BBnb7Kz) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7128 "2018-09-15T04:03:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Chelsea Clinton invokes Christianity to support Roe: > > [Chelsea Clinton: 'As a Deeply Religious Person,' Banning Abortions 'Is UnChristian to Me' | U.S. News](https://www.christianpost.com/news/chelsea-clinton-as-a-deeply-religious-person-banning-abortions-is-unchristian-to-me-227384/) Please explain how this is a stupid idea. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7129 "2018-09-15T05:52:11Z")
Because Christianity preaches against taking life. There’s no more Christian argument for abortion than there is for the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7130 "2018-09-15T06:00:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because Christianity preaches against taking life. There’s no more Christian argument for abortion than there is for the death penalty. It’s funny you mention the death penalty, because _holy shit_ is the bible full of that. The list of shit that gets punished by death in the bible ranges from “Insulting a prophet” to “picking up sticks on a saturday” to “having gay sex” to “having sex with someone you’re not married to”. Similarly, to the degree that the bible directly addresses abortion, in Exodus 22:21, it _does not treat it as murder_. You’re not “taking a life” when you hit a woman so as to cause miscarriage, _according to the bible_. I realize that most modern conservative christian doctrine is firmly anti-abortion. That doesn’t mean that supporting legal abortion is necessarily anti-christian. And the argument she makes makes perfect sense; as a christian, opposed to suffering, she doesn’t want to see a return to the good ol’ days of backalley abortions. Because _that’s what banning abortion nationwide will do_. Not “stop abortion”, “make abortion unsafe and make a lot of people die because of it”. You may disagree with it, but that doesn’t make it _stupid_. :rolleyes: Again, I really feel like comparing to SRIOTD is warranted. Compare this to the republican senator who opposed the medicaid expansion because he thought it would make more people come to god. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7131 "2018-09-15T08:37:31Z")
Well, “as a deeply religious person” I’d be very interested in what church she’s going to that preaches that abortion is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7132 "2018-09-15T08:59:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, “as a deeply religious person” I’d be very interested in what church she’s going to that preaches that abortion is acceptable. Maybe it’s [the episcopal church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_and_Christianity#The_Episcopal_Church)? The Episcopal Church in the United States of America has taken an abortion-rights position and has passed resolutions at its triannual General Convention. It rejects government impediments, “…unequivocal opposition to any legislative, executive or judicial action on the part of local, state or national governments that abridges the right of a woman to reach an informed decision about the termination of pregnancy or that would limit the access of a woman to safe means of acting on her decision.” This is balanced by expressing the seriousness of such a decision and admonishes that it should be used “only in extreme scenarios.” The church also opposes state laws requiring parental notification by under aged women.[57] The ECUSA also condemns violence against abortion clinics.[57] The Church does express opposition to “abortion as a means of birth control, family planning, sex selection, or any reason of mere convenience.” …That’s pretty close to Chelsea Clinton’s position. The church Chelsea Clinton went to in childhood was the [United Methodist Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Clinton), a church which [supported abortion rights groups and Roe V. Wade until 2016](https://religionnews.com/2016/05/21/umc-withdraws-from-interfaith-pro-abortion-rights-group/), and to this day [has a very nuanced take on it](http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/what-is-the-united-methodist-position-on-abortion). It’s worth noting that neither of these groups are niche churches. They’re not some tiny fringe group. Both denominations are _huge_, with the Episcopalians having millions of members in the US and the United Methodists having _tens of millions_. I mean, is it news to you that there are Christian groups who are pro-choice? Self-identified “pro-choice” people have consistently made up a solid half of Americans, some 80% of Americans support legal abortion in at least some cases, and there _just aren’t that many non-Christians in America_. So no, this is not some “stupid idea”. Christianity is basically a meaningless umbrella term. What does it take to be a christian? You have to believe in some guy named jesus and in a god. That’s it. Trump has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that even the most devout supporters of Christ don’t give two _shits_ about what Christ actually taught or believed; not demanding abortion be made illegal is peanuts compared to that. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7133 "2018-09-15T09:13:07Z")
Let me try another way, because if this fact is so unbelievable to you, something in your model of what America looks like is slightly broken, and it may very easily be something that would lead to some really tragic decision-making, like believing that Christians aren’t the absolutely ridiculous portion of the population in the US they obviously are. [67% of Americans support Roe vs. Wade standing](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/most-americans-want-roe-v-wade-stand-survey-shows-n887751). [75% of Americans identify as Christian; 62% belong to a church congregation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_States), so naturally, _at most_ 25% of Americans are not Christians. This means that _at least_ 42% of Americans identify as Christians and support the continued standing of Roe v. Wade. If we act like _every_ person in America who doesn’t identify as a Christian is pro-choice, we still end up with almost _half the country_ being made up of Christians who are pro choice. If we make the even more unreasonable assumption that every person who isn’t a member of a church congregation is pro-choice, that still leaves us with between a quarter and a third of the country who both belongs to a church congregation and is pro-choice. So no, given how hugely prevalent Christianity is in the US, and how popular moderate pro-choice positions are, and given that the Bible’s take on abortion is hardly a slam-dunk “thou shalt not remove a zygote from thy womb”, _and_ given how horrific and visible the consequences of abortion being illegal are, it should come as absolutely no surprise that there are Christian groups who are pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7134 "2018-09-15T11:00:05Z")
But those are clearly no true Christians. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7135 "2018-09-15T11:15:30Z")
@ **Budget Player Cadet** — I appreciate your arithmetic and believe that in this case your conclusion is quite correct. But IIRC similar arithmetic logic can be used to conclude that a non-zero number of Americans _simultaneously_ - believe in the literal truth of the Bible, and - believe in UFOs. (I forget my _Genesis_. Did God create the extraterrestrial aliens on Day 4 or Day 5?) In the specific case of the Roe v Wade question, 17% lost their way in the complicated phrasing, and took a stab: they’re “conservative” so they don’t want any “overturning.” The average American voter is astonishingly stupid. 49% of voters are even stupider than that! ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7136 "2018-09-15T17:42:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because Christianity preaches against taking life. There’s no more Christian argument for abortion than there is for the death penalty. What happened to “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?” and all of of the Biblical demands that you go out and slay the enemies of God? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7137 "2018-09-15T17:45:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ **Budget Player Cadet** — I appreciate your arithmetic and believe that in this case your conclusion is quite correct. > > But IIRC similar arithmetic logic can be used to conclude that a non-zero number of Americans _simultaneously_ > > - believe in the literal truth of the Bible, and > - believe in UFOs. > (I forget my _Genesis_. Did God create the extraterrestrial aliens on Day 4 or Day 5?) > > In the specific case of the Roe v Wade question, 17% lost their way in the complicated phrasing, and took a stab: they’re “conservative” so they don’t want any “overturning.” > > The average American voter is astonishingly stupid. 49% of voters are even stupider than that! Didn’t Ezekiel talk about UFOs? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7138 "2018-09-15T18:21:38Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > What happened to “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?” and all of of the Biblical demands that you go out and slay the enemies of God? “You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth”? It goes on: “But I say to you, That you resist not evil: but whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue you at the law, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. And whoever shall compel you to go a mile, go with him two. **Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you turn not you away.** ” None of which has anything to do with abortion, or for the death penalty, as far as I can tell, but there you go. There are older references, in the bible and Hammurabi’s Code. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7139 "2018-09-15T18:27:16Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Similarly, to the degree that the bible directly addresses abortion, in Exodus 22:21, it _does not treat it as murder_. You’re not “taking a life” when you hit a woman so as to cause miscarriage, _according to the bible_. ?? [Exodus 22:21](https://biblehub.com/exodus/22-21.htm) > [@](#): > > New International Version > "Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt. > > New Living Translation > "You must not mistreat or oppress foreigners in any way. Remember, you yourselves were once foreigners in the land of Egypt. > > English Standard Version > “You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. > > Berean Study Bible > You must not exploit or oppress a foreign resident, for you yourselves were foreigners in the land of Egypt. > > New American Standard Bible > "You shall not wrong a stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. > > King James Bible > Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. > … Just a few of the many translations. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7140 "2018-09-15T18:38:12Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > ?? > [Exodus 22:21](https://biblehub.com/exodus/22-21.htm) > > Just a few of the many translations. Overreach much? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=356) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=358)