# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 358
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7141 "2018-09-15T18:44:49Z")
Whoops, Exodus 21:22-25: ``` And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no [further] injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any [further] injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.[1] ``` ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7142 "2018-09-16T01:11:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Overreach much? Nope. I just had no idea what the quote said, so I looked it up. As it wasn’t the correct quote, and I didn’t know what to search for, I asked for clarification, which was provided. As for the number of different translations, that’s just what the first Google result showed. There were many, many more; I just copy/pasted a representation. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7143 "2018-09-16T02:18:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, “as a deeply religious person” I’d be very interested in what church she’s going to that preaches that abortion is acceptable. She said on Twitter today that she’s Methodist. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7144 "2018-09-17T01:03:28Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > But those are clearly no true Christians. Most “Christians” commit adultery and have premarital sex. Most “Jews” eat pork and work on Sabbath. There’s a big difference between supposedly religious people living secular lives in opposition to what they’ve been taught in their religious studies and actually invoking your faith in opposition to your faith. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7145 "2018-09-17T01:05:14Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > She said on Twitter today that she’s Methodist. I saw. And while Methodists aren’t as hardcore about abortion as Catholics, it is their position that abortion is wrong. IMO, Joe Biden is an actual religious person who supports Roe, because he makes it clear that there is a difference between his secular, political beliefs, and his personal faith. Chelsea Clinton did not make that distinction. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7146 "2018-09-17T01:13:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I saw. And while Methodists aren’t as hardcore about abortion as Catholics, it is their position that abortion is wrong. > > IMO, Joe Biden is an actual religious person who supports Roe, because he makes it clear that there is a difference between his secular, political beliefs, and his personal faith. Chelsea Clinton did not make that distinction. What political position does Chelsea hold? Or held? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7147 "2018-09-17T01:13:35Z")
Oh, look - adaher can’t admit it when he’s clearly wrong - never saw that before. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7148 "2018-09-17T01:32:15Z")
Well look, if she wants to say that her personal Christian faith causes her to support Roe, as a CHRISTIAN position, then that’s fine. But let’s be clear: it’s her personal opinion about her faith, not what her actual faith preaches. The fact that Catholics use birth control doesn’t mean that being pro-birth control is a Catholic position. And any catholic citing catholicism to support birth control is being stupid ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7149 "2018-09-17T02:02:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well look, if she wants to say that her personal Christian faith causes her to support Roe, as a CHRISTIAN position, then that’s fine. But let’s be clear: it’s her personal opinion about her faith, not what her actual faith preaches. Her faith or her church? They are not the same. She can be true to her faith, even if it doesn’t align with what her church preaches. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7150 "2018-09-17T02:17:03Z")
If your faith and your church as in opposition, there are other churches, you know. Not to mention making up your own faith is just idolotry by another name. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7151 "2018-09-17T03:03:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If your faith and your church as in opposition, there are other churches, you know. Not to mention making up your own faith is just idolotry by another name. Believing in the inerrancy of the bible is idolatry. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7152 "2018-09-17T03:44:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If your faith and your church as in opposition, there are other churches, you know. Not to mention making up your own faith is just idolotry by another name. So someone whose faith is informed by their own reading of the bible but attends no church is an idolator? Harsh. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7153 "2018-09-17T03:48:52Z")
If she actually got that from the Bible, I’d be very interested in hearing her quote chapter and verse. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7154 "2018-09-17T03:51:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, “as a deeply religious person” I’d be very interested in what church she’s going to that preaches that abortion is acceptable. I’m given to understand that almost all faiths and denominations have exceptions to a ban on abortions, usually in consideration for the health of the mother. As already pointed out, though, “abortion = murder” is not a Biblical position. > [@j666](#): > > Believing in the inerrancy of the bible is idolatry. Exactly right. It’s placing the tome on the level of deity itself. Aside: in my experience, the inerrantists worship a book which they cannot read. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7155 "2018-09-17T03:58:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If your faith and your church as in opposition, there are other churches, you know. Not to mention making up your own faith is just idolotry by another name. [From here.](http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/what-is-the-united-methodist-position-on-abortion) > [@](#): > > The topic of abortion is complex. The United Methodist Church affirms these two sentences in The Social Principles: > > Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion. > > But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother > and the unborn child. (Book of Discipline ¶161.J) > > It’s important to note that the Church’s statements on social issues, such as abortion, represent the effort of the General Conference to speak to human issues in the contemporary world from a sound biblical and theological foundation. They are intended to be instructive and persuasive, **but they are not church law and are not binding on members.** Members will hold differing views on abortion. **There is no requirement for members to agree with the Church’s view.** [United Methodist Church proposes new belief statement: ‘We support legal access to abortion’](https://www.liveaction.org/news/united-methodist-church-removing-pro-life/) > [@](#): > > Until now, the United Methodist Church has held a sort of “nuanced” position on abortion… but all of that may be about to change. The church’s official statement has been that it recognizes the “tragic conflicts of life” that lead women towards abortion, and favors laws that limit abortion, such as parental consent laws and the banning of late-term abortion procedures. And the statement makes it clear that abortion is something to be avoided if necessary, stating things like, “Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion,” and “We mourn and are committed to promoting the diminishment of high abortion rates,” as well as stating support for “ministries to reduce unintended pregnancies such as comprehensive, age-appropriate sexuality education, advocacy in regard to contraception, and support of initiatives that enhance the quality of life for all women and girls around the globe.” > > The church has likewise distanced itself from pro-abortion extremism. > > Sadly, now, the church is considering a revision to its Social Principle, starting with changing the title of the section from “abortion” to “reproductive health.” And almost all of the pro-life phrases the section previously contained have disappeared. The church no longer speaks of “the sanctity of unborn human life” or of a reluctance to approve abortion. No longer are there “tragic conflicts of life,” and the church evidently no longer mourns the high abortion rates in the country. Instead, the statement blandly reads: > > _We affirm the complexity that surrounds reproduction and birth. We recognize the grief and shame that may accompany an inability to conceive and the decisions that are made concerning intended and unplanned pregnancies. Reproductive health care is essential to the wellbeing of families and communities._ ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7156 "2018-09-17T03:59:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m given to understand that almost all faiths and denominations have exceptions to a ban on abortions, usually in consideration for the health of the mother. As already pointed out, though, “abortion = murder” is not a Biblical position. True, at least not in the Old Testament, but Judaism as a result has always had a more liberal position on abortion than most Christian denominations. If Chelsea wants to drop the Jesus thing and give up working on Saturdays, I’d love to have her in the flock. Now, as for Christianity, most denominations still call it sin and something to be avoided. Roe, as a matter of law, is far more liberal towards abortion than Christianity is. It’s actually quite unlikely that any state would go further than the Christian position on abortion, which is that it should be legal only under very limited circumstances. > [@](#): > > Exactly right. It’s placing the tome on the level of deity itself. Aside: in my experience, the inerrantists worship a book which they cannot read. While it’s true that most people do not actually believe in a strict interpretation of the Bible except where it’s convenient for them, there is only one legitimate way to come across a religion: you learned about it somewhere. At least that way, you can keep in your head the idea that thousands of years ago someone wrote a book of wisdom inspired by God, or even directly dictated by God, as the Torah was. If you just decide for yourself what God is and what he believes, that’s just making stuff up. If you worship a god you just made up, that’s just like building something and call it God. You just did it in your head instead of on a worktable. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7157 "2018-09-17T04:04:17Z")
Boy, that’s not a slanted article or anything… (not a criticism of you, **running coach** , but rather the tone of the article) On further research of [LiveAction.org](http://LiveAction.org), where the article is from, it turns out they’re the “PP is selling baby parts” people. > [@Live Action wikipedia article](#): > > Live Action is known for its undercover video sting operations on Planned Parenthood clinics. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7158 "2018-09-17T04:05:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > True, at least not in the Old Testament, but Judaism as a result has always had a more liberal position on abortion than most Christian denominations. If Chelsea wants to drop the Jesus thing and give up working on Saturdays, I’d love to have her in the flock. Last I looked, you ain’t Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7159 "2018-09-17T04:18:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not to mention making up your own faith is just idolotry by another name. Where did you pull that malarkey from? p.s. The word is spelled _idolatry_. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7160 "2018-09-17T04:20:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If your faith and your church as in opposition, there are other churches, you know. Not to mention making up your own faith is just idolotry by another name. You mean like worshiping Trump over God? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=357) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=359)