# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 391
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7801 "2021-01-21T11:14:40Z")
When is Biden planning to announce forgiveness? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7802 "2021-01-21T15:18:51Z")
Only Jesus can Forgive, Sloppy Joe. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7803 "2021-01-21T15:21:52Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > When is Biden planning to announce forgiveness? When will forgiveness be requested? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7804 "2021-01-21T15:24:15Z")
He’s [extended the break in student loan repayments](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/01/21/biden-extends-break-repaying-student-loans) (and on interest accruing) for another nine months. Seems like a smart idea to me. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7805 "2021-01-21T15:32:39Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Only Jesus can Forgive, Sloppy Joe. [sidebar]I must confess, the Sloppy Joe moniker went over my head for a bit. It’s pretty clever, though.[/sidebar] ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7806 "2021-01-21T15:34:41Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > [sidebar]I must confess, the Sloppy Joe moniker went over my head for a bit. It’s pretty clever, though.[/sidebar] The first time or two, yes. After that, it should be taken down to the quarry and thrown in. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7807 "2021-01-21T15:36:24Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > When is Biden planning to announce forgiveness? Biden is a moderate, I wouldn’t describe him as “liberal”. Maybe compared to the reactionary wing of the Republican Party he is, but his policies are not liberal at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7808 "2021-01-21T16:28:26Z")
And now I want a sloppy joe. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7809 "2021-01-21T16:35:50Z")
I prefer “Joe the President”, if nothing else as a swipe at Sam Wurzelbacher. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7810 "2021-01-21T17:26:26Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Biden is a moderate, I wouldn’t describe him as “liberal”. Maybe compared to the reactionary wing of the Republican Party he is, but his policies are not liberal at all. I heard on Fox last night that he has socialist plans for our country. Socialist! But I have a feeling that word just means he’s going to do something they don’t support. Easier to give it a scary name than explain what’s wrong with it. Now, regarding debt forgiveness. I think there are valid arguments on both sides of that debate and liberals who say it might be a bad idea are not necessarily “stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7811 "2021-01-21T18:05:49Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Which liberals? Please provide the names cause I’d like to give them a piece of my mind. You’re welcome to give me a piece of your mind if you like, but a piece of your mind probably won’t change mine. I consider myself a progressive, and I think that a blanket cancellation of student loans is a terrible idea. It’s a policy that would disproportionately benefit people who are already relatively well off. I firmly believe in helping people who actually need help, in all areas of social and economic life, but I think that such assistance should be targeted at those who actually need the help, rather than being incorporated in massive, indiscriminate spending bills that provide large handouts to people who don’t actually need them. I would, as I made clear in the thread on student loan forgiveness that @Manwich linked to, support the idea of being able to extinguish student loan debt in bankruptcy. The fact that you can’t currently do this is a bad policy that distorts the market for student loans and unfairly punishes people who take on a particular type of obligation. If I can clear my medical expenses, or the loan on my new car, or my credit card debt, through the bankruptcy process, why can’t someone do the same for a student loan? Allowing student loans to be written off in bankruptcy would have the effect of helping people who really need help, as well as leaving some of the choices in their own hands. Individuals could then weigh the pros and cons of bankruptcy, and determine what to do. I would also, on a related topic, support streamlining the bankruptcy procedure, making it cheaper and easier. I would also support some limited student loan forgiveness for people who really need it, on an individualized basis, and subject to applications and some type of means test. My main argument here is against massive, blanket policies that take billions of taxpayers dollars and effectively hand them over to people who don’t need the help. I feel pretty much the same about the continuous rounds of COVID relief checks. My wife and I earned, in 2019, considerably more than twice the national median household income. Neither of us lost our jobs during the pandemic, and our expenses actually declined due to our ability to work from home. And yet, despite all of this, the government is sending us money that we don’t need. (I’m not saying that we can’t use it, or that it doesn’t help, but it is just extra money on top of our regular income.) There are millions of Americans in a similar boat, and in these modern times it should be possible to identify the people who actually need to be helped out, and separate them from the people who have not been economically disadvantaged by the COVID crisis. I understand that they wanted to get checks out quickly in order to mitigate the effects of the pandemic on people who were struggling, but it seems to me that taking a little bit more time would have allowed them to target the aid to those who really needed it. And, if they had left people like me off the list, they could have used that money to give even _ **more** _ help to those who are really suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7812 "2021-01-21T18:06:43Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > But I have a feeling that word just means he’s going to do something they don’t support. Easier to give it a scary name than explain what’s wrong with it. Socialist as used by the Fox News crowd has about as much meaning as any other boogeyman. All you can do is assure them you’ve checked under the bed and in the closet, and Karl Marx is not hiding there. > [@Procrustus](#): > > Now, regarding debt forgiveness. I think there are valid arguments on both sides of that debate and liberals who say it might be a bad idea are not necessarily “stupid.” Indeed - but as a Liberal who paid off his college, and whose wife did the same (and would therefore be maximally screwed by student loan forgiveness), I think the specific reasoning that it would be “unfair” to those of us who already paid for college holds as much water as arguing that antibiotics are “unfair” to our ancestors who died of the Plague. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7813 "2021-01-21T18:07:42Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > All you can do is assure them you’ve checked under the bed and in the closet, and Karl Marx is not hiding there. That’s because he’s hiding in BLM. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7814 "2021-01-21T18:14:33Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I consider myself a progressive, and I think that a blanket cancellation of student loans is a terrible idea. I’m sorry, you can’t be a progressive unless you support cancel culture. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7815 "2021-01-21T18:24:28Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > And now I want a sloppy joe. > [@Sloppy Joes](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-joes/931121): > > One of the most under-rated, underappreciated, and unremarked sandwiches of all time, Sloppy Joe’s are the odd-man out when it comes to ‘favorite sandwiches’ lists, and you almost never, ever see them offered in restaurants. (At least here in the South, and I have eaten at my share of diners.) They at least deserve the dignity of a thread. What are your favorite sloppy joe recipes? Do you have a go-to restaurant for them? What are your thoughts on pre-made mixes, ala Manwich? […](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/50859451013/) ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7816 "2021-01-21T19:35:02Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > > > Which liberals? Please provide the names cause I’d like to give them a piece of my mind. > > You’re welcome to give me a piece of your mind if you like, but a piece of your mind probably won’t change mine. > . Well, I’m not going to try to change your mind as I think that you have some very good points. I don’t have a subscription to the Washington Post and so I can’t read the article. What I was actually responding to was the statement by manwich that “Liberals arguing that cancelling all student debt is unfair”. I just don’t think that’s a “fair” way to describe the arguments by “Liberals”. I’m sorry I was not clear. I was trying for glib, but failed. I’ve just been so irritated lately with these type of blanket statements that are blaming whole groups. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7817 "2021-01-21T19:36:23Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s a policy that would disproportionately benefit people who are already relatively well off. I firmly believe in helping people who actually need help, in all areas of social and economic life, but I think that such assistance should be targeted at those who actually need the help, rather than being incorporated in massive, indiscriminate spending bills that provide large handouts to people who don’t actually need them. Thanks for your thoughtful response **mhendo**. I disagree and think means testing is bad because it creates an unnatural divide between groups of people that leads to further division, like the way welfare people can be stigmatised and used to bait the middle class. But you aren’t making the stupid argument I was talking about which was the idea forgiveness was somehow unfair to those who had already repaid or joined a USA army branch e.g. the marines. Sorry, typing on my phone in the car so hence the terse reply. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7818 "2021-01-21T19:54:10Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > I disagree and think means testing is bad because it creates an unnatural divide between groups of people that leads to further division, like the way welfare people can be stigmatised and used to bait the middle class. Means testing does not create a divide. Means testing discovers an already-existing divide, one that reflects the reality of people’s situations. To be frank, I thinks it’s absolutely ridiculous to argue that, to make everyone feel better about helping low-income people, we should also hand out a bunch of money to rich people. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7819 "2021-01-21T20:05:35Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > To be frank, I thinks it’s absolutely ridiculous to argue that, to make everyone feel better about helping low-income people, we should also hand out a bunch of money to rich people. Relatively rich maybe: people without parents rich enough to just pay for their education upfront. Don’t stress about the rich getting helped, we can tax them more, they have plenty. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/7820 "2021-01-21T20:06:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > To be frank, I thinks it’s absolutely ridiculous to argue that, to make everyone feel better about helping low-income people, we should also hand out a bunch of money to rich people. I agree there, unfortunately, rich people have a disproportionate say in how things are done in this country, and trying to give stuff to the poor without giving something to the wealthy is often a non-starter. If it hadn’t been a stimulus check for $600, it would have been a tax break that saved them $10,000. A check to _everyone_ is fair in exactly the same way that a flat tax is not. My feeling on that particular divide is that the rich are a much smaller portion of the population. Only about 1% make over $300,000 or so. I don’t see any system of means testing that would cut them out that wouldn’t have more overhead than it saved in payments. This is especially true when you are dealing with an emergency like economic relief from COVID. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=390) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=392)