# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 411
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8202 "2026-10-04T15:45:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Bloviating about how wealth is inherently acquired through unjust means is not “letting people know the facts about the source of their wealth”. Ignoring the “bloviating”, yes it is. > [@Babale](#): > > Neither is randomly bringing up slavery as if it has anything to do with anything. Sure, slavery has _nothing_ to do with Black charity workers in America… > [@Babale](#): > > A quarter of billionaire wealth in the US is held by foreign born immigrants, …who just magicked all that wealth into the USA from outside without any relation to the past US situation, I’\m sure… > [@Babale](#): > > the percent is much higher if you include anyone whose family immigrated after after 1866. Because of cause the end of the Civil War reset all the economic injustices of slavery and wiped the slate clean for all that followed after… > [@Babale](#): > > That’s not “hate” in the same sense that Christians “hate the sin not the sinner” when it comes to gay people. Not remotely. One is based on uncomfortable truths about the origins of White wealth, and one is based hipocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8203 "2026-10-04T15:50:28Z")
The mere throwing of a big gala is not the performative ass-kissing the PoCs in my cites are complaining about, though. Charities can still do that sort of thing without expecting their PoC employees to be the house Negros at the event. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8204 "2026-10-04T15:59:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Ignoring the “bloviating”, yes it is. Demonizing success certainly is a strategy someone could go with. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Sure, slavery has _nothing_ to do with Black charity workers in America… I mean, that’s not what I said at all, but you probably think that reading comprehension is a tool of white supremacy, too. What I said was that slavery has nothing to do with the wealth of most wealthy people in modern day America, which is true. > [@MrDibble](#): > > …who just magicked all that wealth into the USA from outside without any relation to the past US situation, I’\m sure… If your point is that some immigrants in the late 1800s made money by proving goods and services to former slaveholders, that’s certainly true, but they also made money by proving goods and services to people who _were not_ slaveholders - including former slaves. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Because of cause the end of the Civil War reset all the economic injustices of slavery and wiped the slate clean for all that followed after… Again, that’s not what I said. Is responding to my posts instead of whatever delusional fantasy you imagined oppressive, too? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Not remotely. One is based on uncomfortable truths about the origins of White wealth, and one is based hipocrisy. What about wealth that isn’t tainted by the Original Sin of Whiteness? (I think it’s pretty clear that there’s nothing Liberal about this kind of racialized nonsense, so I’ll reiterate that this is the wrong thread for this brand of idiocy). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8205 "2026-10-04T16:01:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The mere throwing of a big gala is not the performative ass-kissing the PoCs in my cites are complaining about, though. Charities can still do that sort of thing without expecting their PoC employees to be the house Negros at the event. In other words: > [@Chronos](#): > > Is the premise that that job always has to be done by a white person? > [@](#): > > I hardly think that “only white people can do certain jobs” is what we’re looking for, here. It appears that this is exactly what (some of us) are looking for. I repeat: this shit is illiberal. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8206 "2026-10-04T16:20:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The mere throwing of a big gala is not the performative ass-kissing the PoCs in my cites are complaining about, though. Charities can still do that sort of thing without expecting their PoC employees to be the house Negros at the event. OK, first of all, if we’re going to discuss this, we need a term for the people groveling to the donors that doesn’t implicitly assume that the grovelers are minorities. What term would you prefer to use instead? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8207 "2026-10-04T16:45:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, first of all, if we’re going to discuss this, we need a term for the people groveling to the donors that doesn’t implicitly assume that the grovelers are minorities. Oh, so now there IS a job that white people can’t do? /s (hopefully that doesn’t need to be stated, but…) ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8208 "2026-10-04T16:57:37Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > nutpick Best typo of the month (so far). ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8209 "2026-10-04T17:10:02Z")
Not a typo. Nutpicking - finding some obscure no name and using person that to make some partisan point. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8210 "2026-10-04T20:29:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Demonizing success vs calling out theft and rapine. > [@Babale](#): > > I mean, that’s not what I said at all, > [@Babale](#): > > randomly bringing up slavery as if it has anything to do with anything. > [@Babale](#): > > you probably think that reading comprehension is a tool of white supremacy, too. I’ll let you know when you display any. > [@Babale](#): > > What I said was that slavery has nothing to do with the wealth of most wealthy people in modern day America “Anything” means “the wealth of most wealthy people in modern day America”, now, apparently. Yeah, I definitely didn’t read that. And also, _not_ true. Modern America is based off the back of slavery and theft. Most wealth is based off of it, and that means most wealthy people owe their wealth to it. “Oh, Zuckerberg’s dad was just a dentist! Oh, Gate’s dad was just a lawyer!” > [@Babale](#): > > If your point is that [snip] No, it’s not. > [@Babale](#): > > Again, that’s not what I said. So you _weren’t_ saying wealth created after 1866 couldn’t be related to pre-existing economic injustice suffered by PoCs in the USA? What was your point, then? > [@Babale](#): > > Is responding to my posts instead of whatever delusional fantasy you imagined oppressive, too? _Someone’s_ got an overactive imagination about what people think - like the way you seem to imagine PoC charity professionals are driven by hate. Paranoia getting to you? > [@Babale](#): > > What about wealth that isn’t tainted by the Original Sin of Whiteness? When you find the wealth that isn’t based off intergenerational theft, let me know and I’ll happily tell you. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8211 "2026-10-04T20:46:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I wouldn’t say “pejorative” - “dismissive” or “skeptical” are possibly better fits. Skeptical like these yahoos, [![](https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/08/9b2_717trump1-3-800x430.jpg?strip=1&w=640) ](https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/08/9b2_717trump1-3-800x430.jpg?strip=1&w=640) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8212 "2026-10-05T04:28:42Z")
No, more like this yahoo: [![](https://www.aclu-wi.org/app/uploads/2025/02/white_moderate-800x533.png) ](https://www.aclu-wi.org/app/uploads/2025/02/white_moderate-800x533.png) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8213 "2026-10-05T08:08:43Z")
So your strategy is to force people to feel guilty? It won’t work. It’ll never work. You can rally people against an outside enemy, but you can’t rally them against themselves. You know me. You know where I come from, and I’m sure you believe I should feel guilty about some things. But _you_ are never going to be the one to convince me, because from you, it’s an attack - and the normal human response to being attacked is to fight back. Same thing about these white American moderates. If demand that they feel bad about themselves, their perfectly reasonable response will be to tell you to go fuck yourself. You push someone, they’ll push back. If you want to get people on your side, stop tryin to get them to feel guilty, even if you believe they _are_ guilty. Appeal to their principles, their empathy, their compassion, their sense of justice. Don’t tell them that they’re the bad guys, even if they are. Let them come to that conclusion on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8214 "2026-10-05T09:57:01Z")
I feel, and I don’t think I’m way out on a limb on this one, that thanking volunteers and donors is generally a polite thing to do. I certainly wouldn’t want that to be my job. Fortunately, if I wanted to work for a charity, there are plenty of jobs that don’t involve that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8215 "2026-10-05T10:57:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So your strategy is to force people to feel guilty? It won’t work. It apparently sometimes does, according to that last cite. But it’s certainly not the only or even main strategy I’d recommend to PoCs in charity work. Lots of ways to approach donors other than trying to guilt trip them. > [@Alessan](#): > > their perfectly reasonable response This is where we differ - White fragility isn’t _reasonable_, it’s just weaponized offense. > [@Alessan](#): > > If you want to get people on your side, stop tryin to get them to feel guilty, even if you believe they _are_ guilty. Appeal to their principles, their empathy, their compassion, their sense of justice. Not seeing how those are ultimately different from guilt, just with fancier words. And I’m with you here, they don’t have to be _overt_ in raising the spectre of donor complicity. PoCs don’t have to get all up in donors’ faces. But they don’t have to _perform_ gratitude like Sambos either. There’s a middle ground that @Spice_Weasel wasn’t allowing for. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8216 "2026-10-05T11:05:52Z")
Should white fundraisers be more obsqueous than POC fundraisers? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Not seeing how those are ultimately different from guilt, just with fancier words. Your implication that all positive virtues derive from guilt seems a very harsh view of human nature. I know you to be a principled, compassionate person with a strong sense of justice. What are you guilty of? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8217 "2026-10-05T11:39:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Should white fundraisers be more obsqueous than POC fundraisers? No, I don’t think so. But what PoC fundraisers report is that they are expected to bear a disproportionate share of that - most often being expected to represent or stand in for their perceived communities in ways White workers are not. You can look at something like the last [Race To lead report (pdf)](https://racetolead.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/RTL_Revisited_National-Report_Final.pdf) to see numbers on the disparity. > [@Alessan](#): > > Your implication that all positive virtues derive from guilt seems a very harsh view of human nature. I have a harsh view, yes. And humans keep bearing it out. > [@Alessan](#): > > What are you guilty of? Lots of things, no doubt. Being a Pollyanna about human nature is not one of them. But if you mean does guilt drive my compassion, probably a little, yeah. That and upbringing. And in my experience, most of the super-wealthy aren’t brought up that way (or they wouldn’t be super-wealthy) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8218 "2026-10-05T13:24:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, more like this yahoo: True, we all remember how Martin Luther King Jr led the civil rights movement by berating wealthy people and telling them that their wealth was inherently oppressive. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Demonizing success > > vs calling out theft and rapine. Most wealthy people in the US didn’t make their wealth through theft and rapine. Sorry bud. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Modern America is based off the back of slavery and theft. Most wealth is based off of it, and that means most wealthy people owe their wealth to it. “Oh, Zuckerberg’s dad was just a dentist! Oh, Gate’s dad was just a lawyer!” Yes, I get it, Original Sin logic. Yawn. > [@MrDibble](#): > > So you _weren’t_ saying wealth created after 1866 couldn’t be related to pre-existing economic injustice suffered by PoCs in the USA? That would be a pretty silly point since many former slaveholders were still wealthy in the late 1800s. But the fact that the wealth of southern landowners was based on slavery doesn’t mean that the wealth of some immigrant to California is “based on Slavery”. I’m sure you can trace some of their dollars back to a slaveholder eventually, but again, that’s Original Sin nonsense, not worthwhile analysis. > [@MrDibble](#): > > When you find the wealth that isn’t based off intergenerational theft, _Most wealth_ isn’t based on “intergenerational theft” or any of the other Marxistesque buzzwords you like to throw around. > [@MrDibble](#): > > This is where we differ - White fragility isn’t _reasonable_, it’s just weaponized offense. Pretty ballsy of you to call others “fragile” while you’re over here telling us that the idea of thanking people who give your charity money is mentally devastating to you. It’s hard for me to imagine more _fragility_ than that. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > If you want to get people on your side, stop tryin to get them to feel guilty, even if you believe they _are_ guilty. Appeal to their principles, their empathy, their compassion, their sense of justice. > > Not seeing how those are ultimately different from guilt, just with fancier words. And that really says everything there is to say about you. > [@MrDibble](#): > > But they don’t have to _perform_ gratitude like Sambos either. There’s a middle ground that @Spice_Weasel wasn’t allowing for. I don’t think that @Spice_Weasel is the one who is having trouble with finding the middle ground here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8219 "2026-10-05T14:11:19Z")
It is indeed amusing to see @Babale replying to a poster he claimed that he blocked. I see you Babs! I know you’re looking! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8220 "2026-10-05T16:17:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > True, we all remember how Martin Luther King Jr led the civil rights movement by berating wealthy people and telling them that their wealth was inherently oppressive. I guess _A Letter from Birmingham Jail_ was ghost-written, then. And _Where Do We Go From Here_ certainly never said: > There are forty million poor people here, and one day we must ask the question, “Why are there forty million poor people in America?” And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising a question about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth. When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I’m simply saying that more and more, we’ve got to begin to ask questions about the whole society. We are called upon to help the discouraged beggars in life’s marketplace. But one day we must come to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring. It means that questions must be raised. And you see, my friends, when you deal with this you begin to ask the question, “Who owns the oil?” You begin to ask the question, “Who owns the iron ore?” > [@Babale](#): > > Most wealthy people in the US didn’t make their wealth through theft and rapine. No, they just live off the benefits of previous bouts of theft and rapine. > [@Babale](#): > > Yes, I get it, Original Sin logic. More like looking at the very obvious bloodstains on the ledgers. > [@Babale](#): > > Yawn. So bored - yet still going to post a lengthy reply. Not as bored as all that, it seems. > [@Babale](#): > > But the fact that the wealth of southern landowners was based on slavery doesn’t mean that the wealth of some immigrant to California is “based on Slavery”. I said “pre-existing economic injustices” and “slavery _and_ theft” not just “slavery”, and that includes the theft of all of damn California from Natives, and the exploitation of the Chinese there later. > [@Babale](#): > > _Most wealth_ isn’t based on “intergenerational theft” Most wealth is. Especially the _really_ wealthy. > [@Babale](#): > > Marxistesque Proudhon precedes Marx. > [@Babale](#): > > Pretty ballsy of you to call others “fragile” while you’re over here telling us that the idea of thanking people who give your charity money is mentally devastating to you. Strawman - “performing gratitude” is not the mere idea of thanking a donor. And where did i say anything about _myself_? I’ve cited the people who actually do this work. Ballsy of _you_ to tell those hardworking people protecting their mental health is somehow, what, too much?. > [@Babale](#): > > And that really says everything there is to say about you. Was that supposed to be some devastating rejoinder? Not seeing it. > [@Babale](#): > > I don’t think that @Spice_Weasel is the one who is having trouble with finding the middle ground here. They were the one who said performative gratitude was just part of the job and didn’t allow for PoC workers’ mental health as a concern. Not a lot of middle ground there. Speaking of - @Spice_Weasel still hasn’t returned to answer the question about whether they still think this is White-led or not. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2026, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8221 "2026-10-07T12:59:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Strawman - “performing gratitude” is not the mere idea of thanking a donor. Maybe I missed it but I’m still not clear what exactly you mean by this. Can you provide specific examples of the sort of activities you find objectionable? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=410) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=412)