# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 415
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8282 "2026-11-01T21:22:45Z")
OK this might be me mind-reading a little bit because these views are so far out of what I think. I get the impression that there’s a strain of Israel is the way Jews can stand up for themselves and be safe from countries where antisemites can run the place, and this is even more important than actually voting to keep antisemites from running the country to the point that it makes sense to support someone who hates Jews but supports Israel. But to me this doesn’t make sense because the whole point of Israel specifically being the most important thing to keep Jews safe is that it shouldn’t have to rely on support from the same country with tons of antisemites. I mean it’s not that hard to realize that Trumpists are pro-Israel entirely out of expediency and once they consolidate enough power they are free to cut Israel off. Then you could have a USA run by Nazis that also isn’t sending any support to Israel. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8283 "2026-11-01T21:32:46Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I mean it’s not that hard to realize that Trumpists are pro-Israel entirely out of expediency and once they consolidate enough power they are free to cut Israel off. But not the Trumpists that need Israel so Jesus can return. And, according to their understanding of the “Old Testament”, kill two thirds of the Jews for denying The Christ, Zechariah 13:8. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8284 "2026-11-01T22:47:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > MAGA Rogers with his Nazi staffers based on principles of opposing antisemitism and supporting Israel … > > … Whether or not some Jewish Democratic voters actually feel this way … You do not believe that it is possible to be against El-Sayed out a belief that he is himself antisemitic in good faith, that there are a significant number of lifelong Jewish Democrats who will abstain this time round or even vote for Rogers over that? Why do you think that the Michigan Democratic Jewish Caucus (MDJC) was unable to get an organizational endorsement of the Democrat this time? Even though leadership as individuals do? Something completely unprecedented? Just because? I have been very clear: the stakes of Senate leadership are so large that vote blue no matter who holds. Stevens may or may not be acting in her own mind’s version of good faith, or out of sour grapes, but El-Sayed played this idiotically. The more I read up on El-Sayed the more I understand the concerns about him. If in Michigan I’d still vote for him. But I am worried that his winning signifies that those who consider my worries about antisemitism in the party I have been a supporter of ever since I can remember are a fragility and weird pathology to be dismissed will be ascendant. If his passive and not so passive appeal to antisemites (and yes I see that, mostly by the dogs that have not barked) is the path forward for this party it will have some of us jump ship as soon as there is a non-MAGA alternative. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8285 "2026-11-01T22:55:54Z")
Abstaining, fine. I’m sure there are some non-pathological, non-delusional Democrats who will not vote. Anyone voting for Rogers (with his MAGA support and Nazi staff) based on worries about antisemitism from AES (who has neither MAGA support nor Nazi staffers) is delusional or pathological or both. Based on Israel? Fine. Awful and evil, but not necessarily delusional or pathological. But antisemitism? Crazy shit. Batshit. Something is wrong with your brain (not you personally, the general you) if you think MAGA/Nazi staffers-Rogers will fight harder against antisemitism than AES. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8286 "2026-11-01T23:28:11Z")
Very serious response here. I do not think Rogers will as Senator do anything antisemitic and the Jew hate in the GOP is an existing evil. It has been there and will continue to be there. There is no evidence that Rogers himself is antisemitic, just that others he associates with are. The antisemitism of the Right is exemplified most in the Tucker Carlson wing and frankly Carlson hating Rogers is a point to Rogers. Rogers was an old school conservative who toadied up to Trump for survival and will slither away from it when Trump is gone. Rogers himself doesn’t scare me. Senate control does. He is scum for many reasons including for attacking antisemitism on the Left while mostly ignoring on the right. El-Sayed? I have become more convinced that he himself has what I consider antisemitic beliefs. I see what he has said and what he has not said as minimally enlarging the space for antisemitic tropes as acceptable on the left. No going after it or distancing himself from it than Rogers does on the Right. This scares me as it is in my house. I have progressive activist friends who have been basically kicked out of organizations putatively working on reproductive freedom because the group has demanded antizionism be part of the agenda. Not welcome if you don’t sign on. They are having to build new groups to work on progressive issues without having to sign on to Zionism is racism. Look at the Green Party in Britain. The big picture _still_ matters more. Antisemitism on the Left is not the only issue at play. It isn’t to me the most important issue. But when confronting and condemning it would have been easy to do El-Sayed pointedly declined. It is not insane to vote against that. It is just insane to risk a GOP senate majority because of it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8287 "2026-11-01T23:38:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But when confronting and condemning it would have been easy to do El-Sayed pointedly declined. You don’t seem to be allowing for any room that AES saw this as a bullshit distraction brought about by a grifting troll (Uygur) and giving it air would harm his campaign. So, politically, it would be better to ignore it (from this perspective). He even said he disagreed with the ad (IIRC), even if that’s all he said. AES hasn’t said anything antisemitic, and he’s apologized for the few insensitive remarks he’s made. He’s directly condemned antisemitism multiple times. Rogers has done much, much worse. Not only is he not fighting the antisemitism in the GOP, he’s excusing and encouraging it with his staffers. I believe you’re biased here. I think you’re assuming the worst with AES. Maybe I am biased too (I’m a Jew, by the way). But the Stevens thing should make you much, much _more_ sympathetic to AES’s rejection of her demands – they were clearly made in bad faith, and such hostage-taking should, on principle, be rejected just for basic political strategy. Stevens has shown herself to be anything but a “good Democrat” working for the greater good of the party and the country. Hindsight is demonstrating that Michigan Democrats made the right decision, and AES was correct in his judgment about Stevens. It absolutely is insane to choose Rogers over AES based on fears about antisemitism. That’s pathological. Broken brains. Nothing at all legitimate about it. Fuck those people, they are either bad people or delusional/pathological people. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8288 "2026-11-01T23:41:08Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The antisemitism of the Right is exemplified most in the Tucker Carlson wing and frankly Carlson hating Rogers is a point to Rogers. Not to mention that El Sayed is _running ads bragging about how Carlson prefers him_ to Mike Rogers. Cenk isn’t doing that. Piker isn’t doing that. It’s El Sayed who thinks that this is something to brag about. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8289 "2026-11-01T23:42:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Not to mention that El Sayed is _running ads bragging about how Carlson prefers him_ to Mike Rogers. False – the ad, functionally, said “even Tucker thinks this guys is an asshole”. Tucker didn’t say anything at all about AES. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8290 "2026-11-01T23:46:59Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Why do you think that the Michigan Democratic Jewish Caucus (MDJC) was unable to get an organizational endorsement of the Democrat this time? Even though leadership as individuals do? Idk man why did Latinos break for Trump in 2024? If voters didn’t vote for horrible people who are also horrible to them Republicans wouldn’t be in power. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8291 "2026-11-01T23:52:31Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Idk man why did Latinos break for Trump in 2024? Just as predicted, although a little ahead of schedule: > [@Babale](#): > > If El Sayed significantly underperforms with Jewish voters, one of the most loyal Democratic voter bases I might add, will you consider that maybe he should have listened to what that community was saying? Or _will you just declare that they’re all MAGA Islamophobes?_ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8292 "2026-11-01T23:55:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Just as predicted, although a little ahead of schedule: What will you say if he does fine with Jewish (and Black) voters? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8293 "2026-11-02T00:03:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You do not believe that it is possible to be against El-Sayed out a belief that he is himself antisemitic in good faith, that there are a significant number of lifelong Jewish Democrats who will abstain this time round or even vote for Rogers over that? Politics is never just about being “for” or “against” one candidate. It’s always a relative comparison. I can (maybe) see a voter concluding (incorrectly, I believe, but I could see it) that El-Sayed is antisemitic, but I can’t see any voter concluding, in good faith, that he’s more antisemitic than Rogers. > [@DSeid](#): > > Stevens may or may not be acting in her own mind’s version of good faith, or out of sour grapes, but El-Sayed played this idiotically. He played it the best he could. Any response he gave would have resulted in some people calling him antisemitic, because the conclusion that he’s antisemitic is not based on his response; it’s based on the fact that he’s a Muslim. > [@DSeid](#): > > There is no evidence that Rogers himself is antisemitic, just that others he associates with are. Associations are evidence. Nobody hangs out with that many Nazis unless they’re at least sympathetic to Nazism. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8294 "2026-11-02T00:06:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > the ad, functionally, said “even Tucker thinks this guys is an asshole” What is the history of their mutual animosity? Tucker promotes the Jews are in control conspiracy narrative regarding Israel policy and Rogers supports Israel and has not disagreed when other describe Carlson as an antisemite. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Idk man why did Latinos break for Trump in 2024? Oh there are good explanations for that but nothing that has to do with this discussion. You do know man. A sizable group heard what El-Sayed has said and declined to say and couldn’t rally the wagons around like they have every other time. Now you can believe that these long time Democratic activists are just delusional, sick in the head, pathological, and react to them as they feel El-Sayed has - fuck those people. Not sure that was great politics though. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8295 "2026-11-02T00:17:47Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Rogers supports Israel What the actual fuck does this have to do with antisemitism? Maybe this is the core of our disagreement. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8296 "2026-11-02T00:48:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What will you say if he does fine with Jewish (and Black) voters? I predict slinking away. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8297 "2026-11-02T00:52:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What the actual fuck does this have to do with antisemitism? Did you at all read the context of what you quoted? Carlson believes Jew control Is the basis of American policy especially in regards to Israel. A supporter of Israel gets attacked by him as a puppet. Carlson promotes a host of antisemitic tropes but the Jewish ahem they/them being in charge is the biggie. For his part Rogers comes a close as his spineless anatomy ever does to calling out Carlson as an antisemite. Carlson hates Rogers because he thinks of him as a pawn of Jews. When someone who repeatedly declines to say that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, whose first reaction to a temple bombing is to connect it to Israel as the reason, promotes Carlson’s opinion here, it is rational to make some connections. If El-Sayed ran an ad with the KKK Grand Wizard saying how bad Rogers was, would that be a good look? (And sure maybe you don’t see Carlson’s take or refusing to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state as antisemitism - I and a good many others do.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8298 "2026-11-02T01:01:21Z")
Carlson is an antisemite, though as a prominent media figure I don’t have a problem with the way AES used his criticism of Rogers (which really was “even this shit head thinks Rogers sucks” the way I saw it). AES’s initial statement on the temple bombing was very insensitive and he rightly apologized for it. I don’t think any of the other stuff is at all relevant to antisemitism. Antizionism is not antisemitism. I am strongly opposed to the Zionism of Netanyahu, Smotrich, Ben-Gvir, and their allies. I presume you are too. Rogers’ support for the Israeli government says nothing at all about whether or not he is antisemitic. And most importantly, Rogers’ record is far more antisemitic than AES. No one who legitimately opposes antisemitism, and who doesn’t have delusions or blinders on, could possibly see AES as more risky with regards to antisemitism than Rogers and MAGA. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8299 "2026-11-02T01:02:31Z")
I’m not super up on Michigan politics but what were the other times? Afaik dems usually run fairly run of the mill candidates in michigan. In any case tons of groups have issues with the democratic candidate in a given election and decide to play with fire about it instead of realizing that their issues are less important than keeping fascists out of power. That dynamic is much more important than individual issues. First past the post is a cancerous way to decide elections, primaries are an inadequate bandaid, but the system we live in forces all of us to prioritize between other grievances and the reality of the Republican party. We can’t wish it away. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8300 "2026-11-02T01:08:01Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > but what were the other times? Every other Senate race there in the caucus history of existence. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2026, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8301 "2026-11-02T01:10:17Z")
What I mean is I didn’t think that in the last few decades of elections the candidates said or did anything all that objectionable to Jewish people and Jews still held their noses and voted for them anyway. Feel free to disabuse me of that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=414) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=416)