# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 420
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8382 "2026-11-03T02:01:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > _Why_ would Tucker Carlson say that he wouldn’t vote for Mike Rogers with a gun to his head? Because of Israel. Why is El Sayed playing that clip? Because he wants people to understand that this is his position on Israel. He listed it with other quotes from conservatives in an attempt to reach people who watch right wing media. That’s it. > [@Babale](#): > > But we all know this. None of this bullshit hand wringhing is genuine. What it comes down to is that YOU MOTHERFUCKERS AGREE WITH TUCKER CARLSON ABOUT ISRAEL. You don’t see a problem with signaling ageement with him. That’s it. It’s not mysterious at all. Wow, you are being a lunatic right now. Seriously. Holy shit. This is batshit, 9/11 truther Qanon level stuff. I said before that there might be an interesting discussion on this, but that discussion clearly can’t involve you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8383 "2026-11-03T02:06:09Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Wow, you are being a lunatic right now. Seriously. Holy shit. This is batshit, 9/11 truther Qanon level stuff. > > I said before that there might be an interesting discussion on this, but that discussion clearly can’t involve you. Fuck you and your tone policing. I spent months and months after October 7 trying to be civil with assholes who can’t even grant my people’s right to self determination. They continued with their unhinged attacks against me, and so I don’t bother being civil anymore. I’m happy to apologize to you right now if you can bring yourself to denounce El Sayed’s refusal to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, but I seriously doubt you can bring yourself to take even that tiny step. I’d love nothing more than to be proven wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8384 "2026-11-03T02:11:05Z")
Careful, @Atamasama, he might endorse Rogers if you don’t give in to his demands. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8385 "2026-11-03T02:12:22Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Careful, @Atamasama, he might endorse Rogers if you don’t give in to his demands Who do you think I am, an El Sayed supporter? I’m not _Uncommitted_ towards the Democrats. Beating the Jan 6 party is the most important thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8386 "2026-11-03T02:29:32Z")
Which is why you’re spending so much time and effort attacking the guy who’s trying to beat the Republicans, and defending someone who endorsed them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8387 "2026-11-03T02:31:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which is why you’re spending so much time and effort attacking the guy who’s trying to beat the Republicans, and defending someone who endorsed them This is a forum with, tops, 100 active members? Let’s be honest, we’re all shooting the shit for our own amusement here, not doing real political work. What do you want me to do, virtue signal about how much I hate Trump for the 1000th time? He’s a shit gibbon. There. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8388 "2026-11-03T02:32:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m happy to apologize to you right now if you can bring yourself to denounce El Sayed’s refusal to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, but I seriously doubt you can bring yourself to take even that tiny step. I’d love nothing more than to be proven wrong about that. I don’t like that he has deflected the answer. I feel about it much how this article puts it: > **[Abdul El-Sayed’s Slippery Argument About Israel’s Right to Exist ](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2026/07/24/abdul-el-sayeds-slippery-argument-about-israels-right-to-exist/)** > > El-Sayed says he’s for “self-determination for Palestinians and Jewish Israelis.” But for most Israelis, that means a Jewish state. I wish he would expand more. He probably worries that he would lose much of his base the same way that Kamala Harris did in her 2024 loss when she lost the Muslim vote in Michigan. [Reuters: Kamala Harris’ Michigan loss highlights Democrats’ weak spots](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/harris-michigan-loss-highlights-democrats-many-weak-spots-2024-11-10/) What I’d like him to do might not be the right thing to do politically. And I’m not going to denounce him for it, even if I don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8389 "2026-11-03T02:33:32Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …if you truly believed that Israel were waging a genocidal campaign against Palestinians in Gaza then “hurt people hurt people” would be entirely uncontroversial. It isn’t a defence of hurt people hurting people. It’s just something that _hurt people often do_. > > On these boards it was pretty commonly accepted, including by myself at the time, that Israel had a right to defend itself and a right to respond to Hamas atrocities on October 7. > > But Israel crossed that line the moment they ordered the evacuation of northern Gaza. _Hurt people hurt_. You get it now, right? No, I’d say sectarian violence is motivated by hatred, the vast majority of hurt people never become hateful and for those who do it has very little to do with whether the motivating event for their hatred was itself a crime against humanity or not. I’m also aware people have been killing innocent Jews long before Israel ever existed and people are unfortunately going to continue to plot to kill Jews regardless of the actions of Israel. People have also been killing innocent Muslims for centuries. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8390 "2026-11-03T02:36:05Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But we all know this. None of this bullshit hand wringhing is genuine. What it comes down to is that YOU MOTHERFUCKERS AGREE WITH TUCKER CARLSON ABOUT ISRAEL. You don’t see a problem with signaling ageement with him. That’s it. It’s not mysterious at all. I agree with Tucker Carlson on the Epstein files, and if I were running for Senate I would absolutely use that to campaign to Republican voters that like him. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8391 "2026-11-03T02:49:11Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I wish he would expand more. He probably worries that he would lose much of his base the same way that Kamala Harris did in her 2024 loss when she lost the Muslim vote in Michigan. > > [Reuters: Kamala Harris’ Michigan loss highlights Democrats’ weak spots](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/harris-michigan-loss-highlights-democrats-many-weak-spots-2024-11-10/) > > What I’d like him to do might not be the right thing to do politically. And I’m not going to denounce him for it, even if I don’t like it. Well, that’s a much more thought out answer than I honestly expected, so even though I disagree with your conclusion - I think it _is_ condemnable, even if it is the correct strategic decision from a victory at any cost perspective - I will happily apologize to you for my hostility towards you. I painted you with too broad a brush and for that I am sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8392 "2026-11-03T02:53:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I will happily apologize to you for my hostility towards you. I painted you with too broad a brush and for that I am sorry. I accept your apology, and for what it’s worth I usually like interacting with you on the board. I don’t dislike you as a poster, even when I disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8393 "2026-11-03T02:54:16Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > No, I’d say sectarian violence is motivated by hatred, the vast majority of hurt people never become hateful and for those who do it has very little to do with whether the motivating event for their hatred was itself a crime against humanity or not. …so Israel’s actions in Gaza weren’t an example of “hurt people hurting people” but an explicitly genocidal act? Okay then. And again, just for clarity: saying “hurt people hurt people” is not a defense of hurt people hurting people. It’s just what hurt people sometimes do. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8394 "2026-11-03T02:56:58Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …so Israel’s actions in Gaza weren’t an example of “hurt people hurting people” but an explicitly genocidal act? … yes. Shockingly the standard reaction to sectarian terrorism is not to systematically bulldoze the perpetrator’s whole country. It also isn’t to murder random ass people in a country across the sea that happen to share a religion. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8395 "2026-11-03T03:06:17Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > It also isn’t to murder random ass people in a country across the sea that happen to share a religion. …nobody, ESPECIALLY El-Sayed, is defending murdering random ass people in a country across the sea that happen to share a religion. That’s different from how some people _in this very thread_ have defended the genocidal actions of the Israeli government. (I’m not talking about DSied here. I have no issue with them. Everybody should know who I’m talking about.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8396 "2026-11-03T03:22:45Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I don’t like that he has deflected the answer. Is it “deflection” to not answer a fundamentally meaningless “gotcha” question? That article quotes El-Sayed as saying: > [@](#): > > “The question about Israel isn’t about the theoretical right to exist of a country that exists. The question about Israel is, do they have a right to our tax dollars?” As I said above, I don’t think it really makes sense to talk about a nation’s “right to exist” in the abstract. Either a nation **does** exist, in which case it has rights, including the right to defend its existence, or it **doesn’t** exist, in which case it doesn’t have a hypothetical “right to exist”. (People who want the nation to exist may be held to have a right to self-determination that justifies bringing the nation into existence, as happened with Israel, or they may not, as happened with the Confederate States of America.) Asking politicians if they support Israel’s “right to exist” has ISTM become a “gotcha” question, an affirmative answer to which is held to commit the respondent to automatically supporting any and all Israeli actions that the Israeli leadership claims are necessary to preserve Israel’s existence, and a negative answer to which is held to mean that the respondent is a rabid antisemitic genocidal terrorist who wants to drive all Israeli Jews into the sea. I cannot really blame El-Sayed for preferring not to play that game with those loaded rhetorical dice. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8397 "2026-11-03T03:39:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …nobody, ESPECIALLY El-Sayed, is defending murdering random ass people in a country across the sea that happen to share a religion. I know.I don’t have a huge problem with what he said besides the timing which he apologized for. I think you’re comm about it was stupid so I responded. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8398 "2026-11-03T03:41:00Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I think you’re comm about it was stupid so I responded. …what does comm mean? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8399 "2026-11-03T03:47:35Z")
meant to say your comment about it ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8400 "2026-11-03T03:52:53Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Is it “deflection” to not answer a fundamentally meaningless “gotcha” question? It’s not a meaningless question. That’s the thing. It’s a fundamentally key question to many of us, and his refusal to answer it is a clear signal that his answer is one we would find totally unacceptable. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Asking politicians if they support Israel’s “right to exist” has ISTM become a “gotcha” question, an affirmative answer to which is held to commit the respondent to automatically supporting any and all Israeli actions that the Israeli leadership claims are necessary to preserve Israel’s existence, That’s the stupidest thing you’ve ever said. Plenty of politicians have affirmed Israel’s right to exist while condemning specific actions by Israel. That some lefties are too fucking stupid to notice so they end up condemning Kamala as “Holocaust Harris” doesn’t mean that she wasn’t fully capable of doing exactly what you describe. > [@Kimstu](#): > > and a negative answer to which is held to mean that the respondent is a rabid antisemitic genocidal terrorist who wants to drive all Israeli Jews into the sea. Well, yes, if you don’t think that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, that’s precisely what you’re doing. > [@Kimstu](#): > > I cannot really blame El-Sayed for preferring not to play that game with those loaded rhetorical dice. “Let me be clear. I believe that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state. I also fully condemn Netanyahu’s genocidal actions. They are not necessary to protect the existence of a Jewish state, and they are wrong.” There, I don’t even think that Netanyahu is committing a genocide, but nevertheless I was easily able to come up with a statement that gets both points across. Amazing how Abdul is incapable of that. Almost like he doesn’t believe that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state… ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/8401 "2026-11-03T03:57:02Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > meant to say your comment about it …my comment wasn’t stupid. Hurt people DO hurt people. Claiming that what we are seeing is “mostly motivated by hatred” distorts what is actually happening. Because, just like Israel has a right to defend themselves…so do Palestinians. So do the people of Lebanon. So do the people of Iran. And Palestinians in Gaza that are still being slaughtered during this “so-called ceasefire” probably right now want to fight back. And thats perfectly understandable because, get this, _hurt people hurt people_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=419) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=421)